Hit Something big and hard

[bam3352]

Hey Guys,

I have a couple quick questions I'm hoping someone can help me with. I bought an 87 saltare last year. Had about 400 hours on it. It runs great and is in pretty good shape. I was out of the second time last weekend and hit something doing about 25mph. I'm not sure what it was because I was in area I'm very familiar with. Anyway, the prop is shot. About 1/4 of a blade is missing. However, the real problem is that the strut and the drive shaft got bent. Luckily, there was no damage to the rudder.

I'm hoping someone can tell me the length of the driveshaft on this boat. Like I said, its an 87 Saltare with a 454. Also, I'm hoping someone can tell me the degree of the new strut I will need.

The problem is I didn't have tools with me to take this all apart once I got back in and I keep my boat at a marina about 40 minutes from where I live. I'm real busy right now studying for the bar exam and I really don't have the time to make a trip down to the marina just to get the driveshaft out to measure it and to figure out the degree of the strut.

Hopefully one of you guys can help me out. I was told that the degree of the strut is stamped somewhere on the strut and I'm hoping someone knows the length of the drive shaft off hand. I'd like to be able to order the parts so I can go and fix this thing in one day.

Also, any recommendations on the best prop for surfing would be great as that is mostly what I do. The old prop, which was stock, was decent but since I have to buy a new one I'd rather go with something a little more tailored to producing the best surf wake possible.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Andrew

[sybrmike]

Sorry to hear about the mishap.

I've got an 89 Salt (currently in pieces for a rebuild). My driveshaft is 1" dia double taper x 45" tip to tip.

Don't know the angle of the strut, but if it's just bent - they can be straightened for much less than new (I've got a quote for $60 to straighten mine). Check around at prop repair shops. Check with skidim.com for a new one if you need. They can advise the proper replacement.

My stock prop was a 14x14 3 blade. Acme (via JT at Nettles) suggested a 13x14 3 blade. Yes, 13 dia - evidently new mfg and designs yeild equivalent surface area and better performance than old 14 dia. Or a 13x13 for serious stump pulling. I didn't want to spin my 20 year old 454 consistantly to 4400 rpm, so I went with the 13x14 (JT said we'd swap it out if I don't like it whenever I'm finally back on the water - great guy!). I think JT's group buy deal runs through May. Couldn't pass up the deal - got it last week - CNC work of art - can't wait to try it out.

Good luck!

[wotan2525]

Pretty good chance that these guys are the OEM on your running gear. http://www.marineassociates.com/

I got lucky when I did the same thing -- Those guys are only about a mile from my house. They straightened my drive shaft but then recommended replacing it because the keyway was shot. I bought a new style drive shaft with the new-style coupler (has a nut on the end instead of just set screws.) This shaft makes a lot more sense to me. They also straightened out my strut and installed new cutlass bearings for about $60.

Good luck!

[Okie Boarder]

I believe the angle is 14* from what I remember looking at DIM.

I agree with getting things fixed if you can.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Bam the prop you use depends on what prop you have now and what transmission gear ratio you have. Assuming your stock prop is a 13"x13 then your trans should be 1:1. If this is the case, I would recommend the ACME#913 13" x 10.5 which is for heavily weighted boats. I love mine. Check the NettleProps.com group buy.

If your stock prop is a 14"x14 and your trans is 1:1.23 then you have some other options and I would call JT at Nettles to be sure.

Syber that is very interesting what was recommended for you. Do you use it for heavily weighted applications like surfing? Also what is your trans gear ratio? Seems odd to recommend a 13x13 as that is my stock prop and it's a high-speed prop. Thanks.

[sybrmike]

Not a lot to base it on - only a test drive and brief run on the lake last fall before I tore her apart. The stock 14x14 pulled plenty hard - even hauling what had to be a few hundo pounds of saturated foam and wet wood. The deal from JT was just too good to pass up (hey, I needed a spare prop anyway, right?).

I questioned JT about the 13x13 recommendation & spoke with Acme directly on his suggestion. They assured me that their new 13" 3 blade has more surface area than the original 14" 3 blade and is more efficient. It sure looks that way in person! Acme said the torque of the 454 will spin a 14 pitch with no problem, but did suggest a 13 pitch if weighting extremely heavy. However, the 13 pitch would require spinning the 20 year old motor to 4400 rpm which I wasn't too comfortable with.

I told JT it may be a few months before I'm back on the water to test, but he said no problem - just let him know when the time comes if I want to swap it out.

BTW - it's a 1:1 tranny

Good luck Bam.

[bam3352]

Guys,

Thanks for the help. I'm still trying to figure out the angle of the strut. My issue is that the strut was pretty bent so I'm not sure if it can be fixed but I'm going to try to have it fixed no matter what at least as a back up. The problem is I have a very limited amount of free time to use the boat until after I'm done with this exam in July so I want to try to have all the parts and tools on hand so I can go and get the boat back up an running in one saturday. Basically I have one a day a weekend I keep free for getting out on the water.

Ski Dim sells a 14 degree supra strut but I called them and the guy I spoke to asked me specify the degrees from the old strut. I did order a prop puller and drive shaft from them so if worst comes to worse and I can't figure out the proper angle from home I am at least planning on getting everything disassembled if I have to make the trip simply to find out the angle of the strut.

This is my second inboard boat and I never have had an issue hitting anything before.

Again thanks for the help and if anyone figures out the angle of that strut I'd really appreciate it.

-Bam

[Salty87]

these guys have it all covered pretty well. i agree with trying to re-use the old strut. new ones are not cheap.

my input would be that tying to get it all disassembled and re-assembled in 1 day will be tough. getting the transmission coupler off the old shaft can be a real b!tch sometimes. i've had to cut the drive shaft before...the other option is to pull the engine. you'll ideally want some time for the strut to bed to the hull too. and, since you're removing the strut, you're gonna want to check the alignment when you get it all back together. personally, i'd plan on a day to take it apart and another day to put it back together. if you're lucky, the shop will get your parts ready during the week but even that's a long shot.

[sybrmike]

Yeah, what Salty said. Plan on things taking longer than they should and then add more time on top of that.

My coupling also seemed welded on, but finally able to get enough clearance for a 3 arm puller and let it soak overnight in PB Blaster. I was afraid to crank down on the puller any more & I'd just about given up, but a slight tap with a 3 lb hammer finally knocked it loose.

[bam3352]

Couple more questions. You talk about using a puller to get the coupler off. What type of puller would you recommend. I was going to go the route described on skidim's website that is under a tutorial for installing a new shaft seal.

If its easier to just cut the drive shaft, I may do that as the old shaft is shot. I was thinking of using a saws all but I'm open to recommendations.

Also, what type of filler or adhesive should I use around the strut when I put it back on. I think I found a place that will straighten it for me.

Also, would you guys recommend installing a dripless shaft-seal or is the old one good enough. I don't get any water leaking into my boat at all right now, but I figured I'd ask.

Thanks,

Bam

[Salty87]

cutting the shaft isn't fun. i used a sawzall and at least 5 or 6 blades, took probably an hour or more. i brought the coupler with part of the shaft still lodged in it to nettles and they used their hydraulic press to separate them. they said a puller would never have gotten it. it all depends on how lucky you get.

5200 is commonly used on struts, 4200 would probably do the trick too.

i have a dripless seal and have no complaints. the new gore tex packing is supposed to be really good from what i've read though.

[Mani]

I'd use a cut off wheel. I've cut and fabricated a bunch of things doing this. For something that thick it'll take a few wheels. Regardless of what you end up using just remember to cover everything up. I've pulled many "stupids" in my time, one of which was forgetting to cover parts with some canvas before throwing sparks at them from a grinder. :oops:

[sybrmike]

I picked up a set of "harbor freight special" 3 arm pullers. The 6" worked on the coupling, but the prop took the 8". My engine was out so had plenty of room on the back of the coupling. You should be able to push the driveshaft down through the log to get clearance between the coupling halves. I backed the nut off the coupling, but left it on the end to hold the jack screw in place. Again, lots of PB Blaster and a little convincing with a mini sledge popped it off.

Good luck!

[bam3352]

Guys,

I finally got a chance to start working on this today. My prop was actually the hardest thing to get off. I used a real prop puller and it took a ton of pb blaster and a lot of waiting to get the thing to come off. It scared the crap out of me when it finally came off.

The strut came off relatively easily except a couple screws were hard to get to because it is so bent. For the drive shaft I was able to back it off the coupler just enough to get a nut seated on the shaft. The shaft seal, which does not have packing and looks like a PSS shaft seal was an issue. The stainless steel collar would not come loose as one of the set screws had the head broken off.

Anyway, I put the nut in the coupler and screwed the two halves of the coupler together and I could see the shaft starting to move out of the couple the but the nut wasn't long enough to push the shaft all the way out.

I screwed the prop screw back on the shaft and used the strut as a hammer on the screw to move the prop seal collar farther up the shaft for more clearance. Once I had enough room I was able to get a decent size socket in between the coupling and I used four of the screws and nuts from the strut to screw the halves of the coupler together and force the shaft out. It actually came out pretty easy.

The only problem left was that shaft seal coller. I ended up just wacking it with a ratchet until it came off the shaft in the boat. Since the head of one of the set screws was broken, I figured it was screwed up already, however, I didn't realize I would have to get a whole new shaft seal and couldn't just buy that part.

The good news is that the strut, although very bent looks fixable. The drive shaft also looks straight and seems to have been being held in a bent position by the strut.

I'm going to send them both away to see if they can be fixed. I have all the parts I need except I'm still waiting on a new strut from skidim. For future reference for anyone a Saltare has a 14 degree strut.

I do have one question, has anyone used the shaft seal collar with only one set screw in it, or do I need to get a shaft seal?

Thanks for all your help and any input is appreciated.

-Bam

[Salty87]

something's always gotta be difficult.

have you called PSS? i was able to buy just the rubber boot from them a few years ago. they were helpful. speaking of which, that boot doesn't last forever. while you've got her apart, might be a good time to update all of that equipment.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

THanks for the really good descriptions and good luck

[bam3352]

Guys,

I pretty much have everything back together now, but I have a few questions I'm hoping you guys may be able to help with. The first is that my rudder now looks offset from the prop shaft. Looking at the boat from the back, the rudder seems to be about 1 inch left of being dead center on the prop shaft. When I installed the strut, I used the shaft connected to the coupling to line everything up. The shaft is aligned perfectly with the motor as the couplers are within the .03 tolerance, however, looking straight from the back, I'm trying to figure out if something is wrong because of the offest. Again, the prop shaft is about one inch to the right of the rudder. Enough room that I could pull it out with the new strut installed.

Also, I really don't see another way to line up the strut as the holes for the screws I have are pretty snug, so I don't know how this could not be lined up.

I'm hoping one of you tells me the offset is normal.

-Bam

[Jester]

Bam,
The rudder is also offset from the strut on our '86 Sunsport so I would say it's normal for your Saltare. I'm guessing they designed it that way so you can remove the shaft without having to remove the rudder or pull the engine. Hopefully you'll be back out on the water soon!

[ngavchris]

That is normal. Not really sure why they do that, but mine is the same.

[wotan2525]

There's two reasons -- One is so that you can remove the shaft and prop without having to drop the rudder and the other is that it offsets the rotation of the prop to keep it going straight when it's pointing straight.... Be glad they did that!

[Okie Boarder]

Every inboard I've seen has an offset rudder. You're good.

[bam3352]

Guys,

Just wanted to say thanks for all of your help. My boat is back up and running as of yesterday. There are still some finishing touches to be completed, however, I couldn't resist the urge to drop it in the water and take it for a hillbilly test ride with no engine cover or rear seats. I also did this to check for leaks and the strut and shaft seal.

While I had the boat apart, I installed a new XPC dripless seal as the old PSS seal was looking pretty rough. It was a very easy install and does not drip at all I recommend over the more expensive PSS.

Also, I put it a new Uflex cable and helm as the old steermaster cable and helm were all bound up. It wasn't too bad of an install but I did have to cut a larger hole in the dash to accomodate the new helm. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what to do with the supra dash piece that overlays the steering column as that need to be modified also.

Again, thanks for all your help. The drive shaft, strut and prop are all in and the boat ran great yesterday. When I get a chance I will post some pics.

Thanks Again,

Bam.