Changing Prop [Archive]

firstdogriver

07-22-2010, 07:30 PM

Quick question regarding OJ four blade props. I recently purchased a used 13 x13 OJ four blade prop for a spare for my boat. On a whim I measured the the diameter of the prop (tip of blade to tip of blade) and it came up as 12 1/2 inches. I was wondering if this was right or if the prop had been refurbished. I run an ACME prop and if when ACME says their props are 13 inches they are 13 inches.

jet

07-22-2010, 11:04 PM

Its going to be like adding a SUPERCHARGER! You will love it. Jet

csuggs

07-23-2010, 08:37 AM

Firstdogriver: I have not measured the prop, but it is stamped 13 13 and when I held it up to my original 3-blade 13x13 it looks to be the same diameter.
ScottinAz: Will do buddy - can't wait!
I will intsall the prop tonight or tomorrow, but probably won't run it until Sunday. We are going to Summersville Lake (awesome, awesome place!) on Sunday and coming home Tuesday. Gonna take my 3-blade prop along with just in case . . .

http://www.summersvillelakeretreat.com/index.php/summersville-lake-information

jet

07-23-2010, 09:34 AM

csuggs

07-23-2010, 09:48 AM

When I had my 4-blade added the installer asked when the last time I had my old prop off and I said 4-5 years?? And he just rolled his eyes..he said you have to take your prop off every year so It doesn't fuse Its self to the shaft. It take an hour to get it off. Anybody doing this?? Jet

I've changed mine twice since I got the boat back from Viper. Before I learned how to launch and load the boat with the newly configured trailer, I got the prop into the prop guard (ever-so-slightly) and rolled the blade tips. So I changed to my spare and sent the rolled prop out for repair. Then when I got it back I changed again because the prop I used while the other one was out seems to be a little out of balance. Long story short, my prop comes off the shaft very easily with a tri-arm gear puller. I guess I'll have to take one arm off the puller to remove the 4-blade prop.

ScottnAz

07-23-2010, 11:04 AM

http://www.summersvillelakeretreat.com/index.php/summersville-lake-information

Looks like a great lake, any idea what the surface area is? I pulled some google images that show the seasons.....something we don't get out here in AZ

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsf-HxVSvBB0en-4icoo--B61U8hnyyBpBWLengU8bmYGRg0c&t=1&usg=__In2gVJrGeV--p7_BkvKhUsuuAHU=

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9O7d31ZfVp1mY3KidWN4USfXtH3731 uaVVurASPFWAP3FSRE&t=1&usg=__fRAjnNlFOmiFfDrEUseJNKRs2Dg=

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwwxyxb4W9VpXTtgr7Bonl3VrAfawNC LaS8Qcia59BsLmoy90&t=1&usg=__U24t0zgn6Cl0C52eU3U2Ya48sdA=

Are you going to have one of these while you're there?
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTW1c7Kcbt9tG1-8a49AGIEVYVaPzFx2_VsiJOWCHWopDJtkWk&t=1&usg=__8-0jCYozk14egQx83aBoQd4zOi4=

jzelt

07-23-2010, 12:31 PM

Not sure if this is what you are looking for (front page of their site)...

West Virginia's largest lake offers over 2,700 surface acres of water and over 60 miles of pristine shoreline, ranging from quiet coves to vertical cliffs.

We are thinking of taking a 3 day weekend sometime next year and visiting. We drive by the exit for on 79 a lot and always say we want to check it out...

jzelt

07-23-2010, 12:34 PM

ScottAz, We were at Lake Havasu last Thanksgiving sight seeing. You had 4 seasons there.
Dark of night 50 degrees, Sunrise 60 Degrees, High Noon 80 Degrees, Sunset 60 Degrees.

csuggs

07-23-2010, 01:55 PM

Really cool thing about Summersville Lake is the clarity of the water. I've talked to scuba divers there that say you can usually see clearly down to 30 feet. One of the scuba magazines advertises Summersville Lake as the Bahamas of the east coast, and the clearest water east of the Mississippi. Last year when I was there, I dropped a good 20 feet of anchor line out before I saw the anchor hit bottom! Then there's the cliffs all around the lake - not much frontage property for building, etc. It's very pristine.

87SunSportMikeyD

07-23-2010, 04:14 PM

Clint - sorry i came to the thread late. I would recommend investing in a true prop puller. It's expensive which sucks but it works SO well. It will save much time and frustration.

After a few years they are REALLY stuck on there. Real loud pop when it comes off and tape the key in or it will fly away. Next time it's much easier but still the puller helps a lot.

IMHO you are comparing two props with a 13-pitch. They should both have the same hole shot. The 4-blade is designed to have more overall surface area. New boats use a 14" diam prop and many other boats even larger. Once you get the larger diam prop, the surface area can be increased a lot using a 4-blade. I tlaked with Nettles about it a bit and they recommended for me the ACME # 913, 13" x 10.5. Love it.

csuggs

07-23-2010, 10:09 PM

MikeyD - I think you're confusing somehting that Jet said about getting the prop off. I have no problems at all using my gear puller, works great every time. A prop puller would be a waste of money for me.
Also, with all due respect, I beg to differ on 3-blade vs 4-blade scenario you painted for us. The two props in the pic are bothe OJ 13x13. As you can see, the 4-blade covers much more area than the 3-blade. The blades on the 3 may be ever-so-slightly larger than the blades on the 4, but I'm not convinced of it when viewing the two props stacked on top of one another. In theory, and as I think many will attest, the 4-blade should give me a noticeably better hole-shot. The 3-blade will remain more efficient and give a slightly higher top end. I will know this weekend first-hand after I test it!
If you were talking about the newer Acme 3-blade CNC machined props, then that's a different animal all together from what I'm told. If I were buying a new prop I would have bought the Acme 3-blade. The 4-blade prop I have at hand is a remanufactured OJ that Jim at Viper sent to me at no charge - or at least no additional charge!
I'll post the results after my trip.
MikeyD - I'm not trying to say I know more than you on this subject, just theorizing. I know what you're trying to say about a larger diameter. That would definately give more opportunity to increase the surface area of the prop. Of course then you have to think about wether you've got the ponies to turn that prop. As for me, a larger diameter prop is out of the question unless I rework my trailer - again.

ScottnAz

07-23-2010, 10:37 PM

Not sure if this is what you are looking for (front page of their site)...West Virginia's largest lake offers over 2,700 surface acres of water and over 60 miles of pristine shoreline, ranging from quiet coves to vertical cliffs
Uh, yea, that's what I was looking for. See what what happens when you actually read the text on the page....... I was, mesmerized by the pictures..

rludtke

07-23-2010, 11:45 PM

csuggs

07-24-2010, 07:34 AM

More blades do mean a more solid disc area, but some of the theoretical benefits of this are negated by the fact that the blades are running in the "bad water" of the previous blade as they are closer togather.

If your prop mearsures 12" when it is stamped 13, something is wrong...

Yep - right about the "bad water". That's why lesser blades means more efficiency. I'm not sure why you made a comment about 12" diameter. Both props are stamped 13" and both are the same size. Maybe that was for someone else.

csuggs

07-28-2010, 11:10 AM

The new 4-blade OJ prop worked great this past week. I could really tell a difference out of the hole, especially with so many people in my boat. It took less throttle to pull wakeboarders and others up out of the water. Good move changing from the 3-blade.

87SunSportMikeyD

07-28-2010, 11:38 AM

I'm sorry if I came off like a know-it-all. Everything I said is just theory for me too! I didn't mean to say you were wasting time or anything. In fact I am very excited to hear how your test goes.

jet

07-28-2010, 12:10 PM

4-Blade = SUPERCHARGER!! Thats what it feels like, speaking from experience. Jet

wotan2525

07-28-2010, 12:13 PM

When I bought my new Acme CNC prop a few years back, Acme told me that the 3-blade prop was a much better prop for our boats and that the 4-blades were just hype. I trust that they know what they are talking about. I know that the manufacturers all went to 4-blade props about 7-8 years ago... then back to 3-blade props for a couple of years and now back to 4-blades again. I think it's all about how a boat "shows" and a 4-blade prop does look a lot more impressive in a showroom or on a trailer. I've been meaning to have my spare prop repitched but I don't remember what either of them are anymore since they've both been reworked and restamped so many times with different numbers. The one thing I have considered is moving up to a 14" prop next time I buy one.

ejojprop

07-30-2010, 08:30 AM

We introduced the 4-blade to the market in the late 90's. Prior to that time the only other 4-blade being run was a prop from Mercury Marine. The prop did not work very well, blades were very narrow and not very good for an inboard.

We came out with the FORCE 4-blades, which were versions of our tried and true 3-blades, 13 X 13 and 14 X 18 and later expanded to other sizes. To keep things simple we stamped the 4-blades the same size as the 3-blade they replaced. The diameters were of course smaller and the pitches changed a bit as well. We had always "rounded up" our sizes, not sure why, never had a chance to ask my great grandfather Oscar but a 13 X 13 was really closer to 12 3/4" X 12 3/4". The original 4-blades we built did have more blade area than the standard 3-blades of the time. The 4-blade did accelerate, hold speed better (back in the day when a tournament boat would pull a slaomm skier) and were smoother than a 3-blade. They also could drop 1-2 MPH, some ran the same MPH on the top end.

Today the 3-blades have expanded blade area which allow them to come out of the hole as well as or better than some 4-blades, the lower pitch of these help as well.

Much is being made of the 14" diameter prop. Guys, the 1:1 boats do not currently have a 14" diameter option. With more and more guys trying to weigh a 1:1 down to board, I do have a few things in the works. The 14" plus diameter prop was another concept we brought to the market to improve the performance of the heavily weighted boats with gear reduction transmissions. We are building props up to 14.75" in diameter with pitch as low as 13". These props are running on set ups, motor/transmissions, that can comfortably run a 14 X 18 (really a 13 3/4" X 17 1/2") with no ballast.

jet

07-30-2010, 09:16 AM

Last night on my buddies malibu we had 1100 lbs ballast, the wedge and 6 guys. It took the length of a football field to plane out and get up to speed. My boat with 1000-1400 lbs and 6 people takes about 2-3 lengths of my boat to get up to speed and plane out. It use to take the length of a football field.This is due to changing to a 4-blade. The 3-blade is NOT the way to go or better than the 4-Blade. If you put a fatter tire on your car like drag cars do it goes faster because of more grip, the same thing applies to the water. My boat feels like it can launch itself out of the water like a nitro boat..and thats no sh*t! I spent so much money on my boat and when it was finally done I said "well I should get a 4-blade now" I could KICK myself now. It should be the FIRST thing you do to your boat. Jet

csuggs

07-30-2010, 10:21 AM

Thanks ejojprop for all the info - I appreciate the input!

Jet - I gotta agree that my boat comes out of the hole MUCH better than before, a lot like slicks launching a drag car. I'm extremely happy with the 4-blade!

Can't wait to get back out . . .

87SunSportMikeyD

07-30-2010, 02:15 PM

I respectfully disagree. Changing the pitch of the prop is the correct way to prop a weighted boat. Whether you are using a 3 or 4 blade a 13pitch is not a wakeboard/surf prop. The recommended wake/surf prop for a 1:1 trans is a 13"x10.5pitch. imo

If it does work BETTER than your old prop, awesome.

jet

07-30-2010, 03:12 PM

89' Comp..... 04'Malibu XTi
carb..... Fuel Injection
260hp..... 300 something
(60' to get to..... 100 yrds
speed)
4-blade..... 3-blade

So why isnt his boat beating the crap out of my old boat?? Doesnt matter how much hp you have, if you cant put it to the ground...your the 1st looser!!

Dont get me wrong, i love my buddies boat and the wedge!!

Love you to Mikey : )

rludtke

08-02-2010, 01:49 AM

Are the props that you switch to comparable in pitch with the old, or do they have less pitch? Could you have received the same benefit by re-pitching your three blade as Mickey suggests? I think a weighted boat would require a drop in pitch to get the hole-shot performance back, even with a increase in diameter, perhaps even more so, as the additional diameter will increase the load on the engine, holding down the rpm's. I always suspected that the 14" diameter might be more appropriate for the boats with more than 1:1 gear-ratio.

Harv

08-02-2010, 08:01 AM

[QUOTE=ejojprop;42409]We introduced the 4-blade to the market in the late 90's. Prior to that time the only other 4-blade being run was a prop from Mercury Marine. The prop did not work very well, blades were very narrow and not very good for an inboard.

Today the 3-blades have expanded blade area which allow them to come out of the hole as well as or better than some 4-blades, the lower pitch of these help as well.

Much is being made of the 14" diameter prop. Guys, the 1:1 boats do not currently have a 14" diameter option. With more and more guys trying to weigh a 1:1 down to board, I do have a few things in the works.

So what is the best prop for an 86 Sunsport 351. My boat is horrific coming out of the hole with any amount of people in it and also we do a lot of tubing, which I need some low end pop for also. I currently have a 13 pitch 3 blade stainless, and am looking at props. The 3 blade Nibral is supposed to be the latest and greatest, but I see you say they are better than some 4's, which is the best prop out there performance wise in your opinion?

Harv

08-02-2010, 08:18 AM

[QUOTE=jet;42419]Last night on my buddies malibu we had 1100 lbs ballast, the wedge and 6 guys.

Wakeboarding noob here.
I have read a bunch here and there about setting up a boat for wakeboarding, looking for some help on the matter.
What exactly is the wedge?
I assume the ballast is water bags?
Also, is there a method of taking on and dumping ballast quickly? So that you can ski and wakeboard easily?
And has anyone found a power trim tab setup that will fit under a sunsport rear deck?
Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!

Mike

tg0824SSVGG

08-02-2010, 08:22 AM

Hey Harv,

The "Wedge" is something on a Malibu that is used to shape the wake. If you look at
the Malibu boat website, I am sure you can see all about it.

Ballast is "weight" added to change the shape of a wake, most commonly thru bags
of water, but can be steel plates, or whatever. Most like the water, because then
you don't have to carry it around with you -- hard on the trailer, etc.

Depends on what you mean "quickly" -- some pumps are faster than others. If your boat
doesn't have anything in it now - you could do whatever you wanted. Some standalone
setups have you hold the pump and tube off the side of the boat and fill. Check out
some sites like wakemakers.com (I think that is the name) for more info.

Todd

Supra-in-steamboat

08-02-2010, 08:38 AM

Mikey is correct, it is all about pitch when talking about ballast, altitude, or in my case both. Acme, Oj, and a few others i'm forgetting, all sell props for +1000lbs ballast with 10.5 pitch and .060 cup on each blade. Specifically designed for towing with junk in the trunk. With an empty boat the hole shot is, well- lets just say pay attention or hang on. Torque.

csuggs

08-02-2010, 09:08 AM

Well, I'm getting really good at changing props. I wrecked my new 4-blade yesterday when loading the boat. We were at a different ramp that is much steeper, the boat ended up on the fender and the prop hit the trailer . . .
Boat's ok though!

ejojprop

08-02-2010, 10:29 AM

So what is the best prop for an 86 Sunsport 351. My boat is horrific coming out of the hole with any amount of people in it and also we do a lot of tubing, which I need some low end pop for also. I currently have a 13 pitch 3 blade stainless, and am looking at props. The 3 blade Nibral is supposed to be the latest and greatest, but I see you say they are better than some 4's, which is the best prop out there performance wise in your opinion?[/QUOTE]

For what you are doing with the boat a 13 X 13 LC 1" 4-blade would be an improvement. You may also try a 13 X 11.5 LC 1" 3-blade.

jet

08-02-2010, 11:36 AM

OK, if you 3-blade guys are right, show me a new wakeboarding boat (No cheap off brands) that comes with a 3-blade on it from the factory. And in my line of work solar/attic/air flow mgmt, OG's say whirlybirds work (those things that spin on your roof) Yes..they work 5% gain Oooooh! So yes a 3-bladed prop with a ton of pitch in it can catch up to a 4-blade with not a lot of pitch in it but then why have a 4-blade with not much pitch?? Worthless.

blackout00

08-02-2010, 11:54 AM

So back to an earlier point, how often should you take your prop off? Also, what do you look for when taking it off etc???

jet

08-02-2010, 12:49 PM

Just take it off during winter and replace the key each time because thats what rusts and bonds Itself to the shaft. Haa..haa..haa..I said shaft Beavis.

87SunSportMikeyD

08-03-2010, 12:10 PM

Rick you can have props re-pitched, but I was told they can only do small adjustments. The blades need to be very finely tuned and they don't do that big of changes. I would personally attest that there is a huge difference between a 13x13, 13x12, and my new 13x10.5.

Jet the reason new boats dont come with a 3-blade from the factory is like OJ said above. The new boats have a gear reduction transmission, as well as more clearance room under the boat (the shaft exits at a different angle) so they have room for a larger prop. They use a 14" or larger blade size. This would not fit on my boat. So if you have a 1:1 trans you are limited to a 13" diam prop. In general, 3-blade props are recommended for boats that can only have 13" diam blades. Once you get gear reduction trans and larger diam blades, it is a large increase in blade surface area and performance. Also keep in mind Jet that your boat is probably 2' shorter and 1000lbs lighter.

jet

08-03-2010, 04:50 PM

OK..OK..yall win..I cant take it any more : ) I do have the power plus option and a 14x14x.105 4-blade.

87SunSportMikeyD

08-03-2010, 05:53 PM

Sorry I wasn't trying to 'be right' or argue with anyone. :)

jet

08-03-2010, 06:19 PM

Its cool my brotha. I just had know more knowledge to give. lol

rludtke

08-11-2010, 12:03 AM

So back to an earlier point, how often should you take your prop off? Also, what do you look for when taking it off etc???

I wouldn't take the prop off unless I needed to remove it for repair. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. ;o)

rludtke

08-11-2010, 12:09 AM

[QUOTE=87SunSportMikeyD;42701]Rick you can have props re-pitched, but I was told they can only do small adjustments. The blades need to be very finely tuned and they don't do that big of changes. I would personally attest that there is a huge difference between a 13x13, 13x12, and my new 13x10.5QUOTE]

Hi Mickey,

Because the prop shops anneal the metal, they can put your prop onto any pitch die and make it match any number of times. The metal work hardens or they heat treat it to give it its strenght back after the rework. You could re-pitch from 13" down to 10" if you wanted to without problem.

wotan2525

08-31-2010, 06:11 PM

I wrecked (actually... my roomie wrecked) my prop this weekend. I hadn't really been paying attention since the last time I put a prop on but imagine my surprise when I just pulled off the bad prop to find it was 14x14!! It was my spare prop from when I bought the boat... I guess I had my Acme 13x12 reworked and hadn't put it back on because I found it sitting brand new in the garage.

That being said... The 14x14 is an OLD prop and has WAAAAY less surface area than the Acme does. The 14x14 did give me a great hole-shot and seemed to work really well as a prop and it has me thinking that a newer Acme 14x14 would be even better! Regardless, I'm going to have this 14x14 redone and in the meantime, see how she surfs with the 13x12 acme. I'll report back and let you know.