One thing after another....grrrr

[Mattyman]

I finally got my 'no spark' issue resolved and took the boat out thurdsay for about a 20 minute trial run and everything seemed to work well. We went out today and fired it up and did a quick lap around the lake and then shut the boat down to check the oil. After that, we went to start and the engine would not turn over. It would hardly crank at all. Had to get towed in after a lot of paddling.

We brought it back to my place and tried to jump it off my truck. The engine still had some trouble turning over but then all of a sudden jumped to life and fired up. After about 1 minute, we shut it off and went to try again and it struggled to turn over and the crank was very slow. Couldnt get it to start.

Since I have had the boat, it has cranked pretty slow and always seemed like there was some type of load on the engine when cranking. Even after buying a new battery it still didn't crank fast. Could there be an issue with my starter or something causing so much compression on the engine that it is having a hard time cranking?

One thing we did notice was when attempting to start the positive battery lead going to the starter would actually 'jump' near the starter, which I believe was from the high load.

This is getting frustrating and I just want to enjoy the boat. Any help or ideas would be helpful.

[OUI]

Check to make sure your battery contacts are secure and clean -- on both ends. From there, the starter is easy to pull, do it and bring it in to have it tested. It's unlikely that compression is an issue.

[SUPRALUVIN]

Check to make sure your battery contacts are secure and clean -- on both ends. From there, the starter is easy to pull, do it and bring it in to have it tested. It's unlikely that compression is an issue.

I second that I had the same issue...crimped new terminals on battery cables...much better. Also you may want to think about replacing the starter

[saltare inverts]

I would replace starter and whole cables. I bet you will have a boat starting like a new one.

[Mattyman]

Thanks for the information so far. Just for possible future purchase, do I need a specific marine grade starter or will any old starter for a ford 351 do the trick? Also, do places like Advance Auto test starters? The terminals on the battery side are pretty clean but I have no idea of the internal shape of the wires running to the starter and the shape of the contacts at the starter end.

I'll start there this week. This boat has just given me problem after problem since I bought it the other year. Should have just kept my old '77 Chaparal that is still running like a champ ;)

[Longhorn21]

I had the same problem on my 87 comp and rebuilt the starter and fixed the problem

[jzelt]

Hopefully it is just the starter.
I would think if you wanted to see if it was compression next time, pull the spark plugs and see if it will turn over.
I don't want to think about it, but possibly a hydro-lock if it is just leaking a little right now?

[Mattyman]

I'm going to try and pull out some plugs and see how well she turns over. If there is an issue, what could cause a problem with too much compression upon startup? Once it is running, things seem well. It is just getting it started, which is the hard thing.

[Supra-in-steamboat]

There is the an old saying... Nothing works on an old boat but you... Matty- most likely your dealing with an electrical issue. The starter just bolts on/off, very easy to pull off and have tested. Autozone, Napa, Carquest can test them. Yes it must be marine grade. Rebuilt ones go for @$129.00- $159.00 plus shipping. Replace your battery cables if you have any doubt. Cheap and easy.
When your start your boat cold, it is the first current your pulling thru the wires. Juice is flowing thru those cables as the boat continues to run. Old cables are prone to corrosion from water. Once corroded they lose their efficiency to conduct the amps your boats starter needs to fire up your V8.
It's easy to get frustrated when it works only sometimes. Be patient with your ride because once it is dialed, you will forget all this s**t. Good luck

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Have you checked the timing at all with a timing light?? That is pretty easy.

[SUPRALUVIN]

Any starter is fine...got mine for 10 bucks five years ago from an auto wrecker. I was worried and had the other one rebuilt by them and they said the only difference was the gaskets.... for ten bucks I could replace 10 times and still be ahead.!! easy easy fix

[Mattyman]

Well, I pulled the starter out, checked the battery cables and they all seemed pretty new and flexible...nothing brittle. I took the starter and battery to Advance Auto to get tested. Both tested fine without issue. At this point, I was kind of worried thinking about what else it may be. I thought maybe the starter solidnoid or something else. Well, I got back home and decided to take off all the electrical connections and clean the contacts. Most of them looked pretty clean but I did it anyway. After I was done, I put everything back together and reinstalled the starter and battery.

After it was all back together, I took off the plug going to the coil and tried to crank the engine. It cranked with ease and had a faster crank than I can remember. I believe the issue is now resolved but I will not be certain until some additional testing.

Thanks for the help.

[OLDSCHOOL85]

I'm pretty sure its a starter issue. My 85 comp did the same damn thing. I replaced the starter,(20 minutes) and have not had a problem since.

[jzelt]

Good to hear. The reason I was saying possibly water was that it started fine cold, and then you went for a quick ride and it wouldn't start after that, leading me to believe that some steam built up in a cylinder and locked it enough.

[Mattyman]

yeah...I was pretty sure it wasnt any type of vapor lock because it sat for about 2.5 hrs and still didnt turn over. Not saying that wont happen after i get it back out for some time :P At some point she will be reliable.

[fastab]

You could still have a bad starter it may have a dead spot on the armature or worn brushes that are making poor contact. It will crank and require a lot less amperage from the battery with the plugs out. However if you did see it arc on the positive battery cable that means that it did not have a good connection between the post and the terminal. Air is not a good conductor so it would require a lot of extra amperage to overcome this poor connection. If you have a simple multi-meter you could do a voltage drop from the battery all the way to the starter. First test the voltage @ the battery, then put positive on the battery terminal, negitive onto the battery post crank it and see what the voltage is, this will tell you the voltage that is being lost at this point, do the same all the way down to the starter, next would be terminal @ battery and cable or teminal @ battery to terminal at soleniod.
The other test that I would do is an amperage draw with it installed.

Marine starters are sealed (spark retardent) If you use an automotive starter it can cause the boat to blow if you have the right conditions.

[Mattyman]

I did a few test runs in the driveway with it connected to the hose. It fired right up with no issues. I stopped and started it about 6 times and it had no issues cranking and turning over. I let it get up to temperature and did a few more tests and didn't have any issues. I also noticed that my tachometer now works after cleaning all the connections. That thing never worked. I'm going to probably take it out to the 'test' lake tomorrow and make sure things continue to work.

I actually feel like I accomplished some stuff today as I also did some rewiring and got all my gauge lights to work properly and the bow and anchor lights working properly. The sound system is also working well now after a few tweaks. Today was an enjoyable day working on the boat.

[fastab]

Sounds like the majority of the problem was a bad connection, The boat will charge and start better because of this, you may even see a little bit more response/power from the engine depending on what type of Ignition you have.

[Mattyman]

Well, the issue still resides...

I took the boat out to the lake today and she fired right up. Did a few laps and got it up to temperature and then shut it down. Started it up and it had no issues at all. I figured it was good to go. I pulled my buddy a few times while he slolomed and we ended up near the dock. I decided to try it again and shut her down and then went to start it and it was like it did not have enough juice to properly crank. It would either not crank at all or crank slowly. We decided to take it in and call it a day. Got back home and about an hour later I took the cable off of the coil and tried to crank it and it cranked with ease.

It doesn't sound like vapor lock because it is not even turning over. It is almost like there is so much pressure on the warm engine that the battery does not have enough juice to turn it over. Once things cool down, it cranks without issue. When I'm out cruising the temp gauge reads around 160 and it stays there. When I shut down the engine I noticed the temperator guage pegges out over the 240 mark since there is not longer any cold water going through.

I also noticed that from attempting to crank, the battery cables get pretty warm/hot. I know this can be normal due to the high current going through but could this be a clue for some other issue?

If I can just get this stupid problem fixed, I'd be golden. Either that or take the boat out for the day and never shut it down :p

[OLDSCHOOL85]

I dont know man. When I was having that problem all I did was swap out the starter (autozone 1985 F-250 truck) and ran new thicker battery cables. Im not saying the cables fixed the problem, but it couldnt hurt replacing them so i did. The hotter your starter gets the harder it is to turn over. I still think its the starter.

[fastab]

The fact that the battery cables are getting warm is an indication that the starter is drawing a large amount of amperage, if the cables are sized properly they would not get even warm from starting the boat.

The starter may have a dead spot or the brushes could be toast, it will be cheapest to buy a rebuilt starter and bolt it up. You could do an amp draw test but it will be cheaper to buy a rebuilt starter than get an ampmeter that can handle the amperage that you are drawing to heat up the cables.

The starter needs to be sealed Spark Retardent or under the right conditions the starter could cause a spark that could blow your boat up.

Vapour lock is in the fuel line and is cause by heat, it is just what the name says, fuel turns from a liquid into a vapour and acts like a switch not allowing the liquid to pass. This would not cause the boat not to turn over.

If it is a temp related thing it may be the engine seizing, but I would not think this to be the case. If you thought it might be you could put a wrench on the front of the crank and try and spin it, but you have to watch it could start or fire.


I would replace the starter.

[Mattyman]

Just to close the thread, I have identified the issue and all appears to be well now. I decided to just get a new starter and I built new battery cables. After doing that, I took it out to see what it would do. After running it, I shut it down and went to turn the key and got nothing. Then I knew for sure that the solenoid was bad. I bypassed it and then she started cranking. I guess it was on its last legs and the heat was messing with the connection in the relay. I replaced the solenoid and it now seems to be ok.

[brack]

congrats on finding your problems.... now time to have fun