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wotan2525
09-14-2004, 07:17 PM
Just puchased my first boat, and its a 1987 Supra Saltare with a 454. It was reupolstered and the engine was rebuilt in 2001 -- it has 310 hours on it total. The thing is in fantastic shape for such an old boat and is setup with a really nice stereo, and wakeboarding tower. Everything seems to work really well but I had some total newbie questions. I appreciate any help that anyone can give me. In no particular order:

1) What are some general maintenance things I should do? I'm assuming new plugs, and oil change, but beyond that I really have no idea. The guy I bought it from seemed to take good care of it, but I just figured there was some really simple stuff that should be done.

2) Winterizing it? I'm in MN and winter is fast approaching. What steps should I take to prepare it for a cold, cold winter?

3) Took it out today and there were a few issues raised at full throttle. Firstly it didn't seem as fast as I thought it should be with such a monster engine -- the speedos both registered 35 @ WOT running at about 4500RPMs. Secondly the engine was surging (for lack of a better word) it kept racing and slowing, racing and slowing -- if I backed off just a little bit it ran really smooth again, but there seemed to be alot of exhaust. I've never driven a boat of this vintage so I have no idea what a normal exhaust amount would be, but it was definetly noticeable where every other boat I have driven seems to have no visible exhaust at speed.

4) The wood needs a tune-up. Any recomendations on a good oil or wax that will seal it and last? The wood now is pretty grey looking.

5) The trailer -- the boat sits too far down on a steep ramp to pull it all the way up to the front roller. It wants to stick its nose under the roller and is a pain in the ass. Anyone have any tricks on how to put it on the trailer without cranking your arm off for about 10 minutes?

Thanks for any help. I'll try to get some pictures of it if anyone is interested.

Rob

87 Sunsport
09-15-2004, 09:25 AM
Congratulation, that's a beautiful boat. You'll have to post some pictures in the pride and joy section. You'll probably get a reply from Salty and others so I'll be brief.
There is an FAQ section at www.skidim.com that deals with winterizing, and there are previous discussion if you search this site for both winterizing and teak care.

Saltareowner
09-17-2004, 11:54 AM
congrats on a great choice in boat!!! I would replace all the points condenser and coil as well as the dist. cap. as for winterization follow the Skidim points he covers it all

Salty87
09-17-2004, 03:34 PM
hello,

congrats on your purchase....i have an 87 as well, i've had it for 4 years and have put 650 hours on it. i like it alot.

for maintenance issues, as has been said...plugs, rotor, condensor a whole tune-up. might as well check the compression if you haven't already. check the hoses for softness like you would on a car, replace any that you can easily squeeze. check the impeller.

these boats don't really run their best at wide open throttle, i only open mine up for a few seconds at a time and not very often. they're heavy boats with alot of wet surface area and the 454's will pull stumps but not win too many races. are you sure you're seeing smoke and not water vapor? do you see smoke when you start it for the first time of the day? you might need some carb adjustments, not my area.

the wood is teak and although you can seal it if you want, it's your boat, most people apply teak oil which brings back the teak color. it's a maintenance thing that can be a pain in the butt but looks great when you oil it. your call on that one.

it sounds like you've got the trailer in too deep when you're retrieving. if the bow can get under the bow rest, then it's not hitting the bunks before that point. if you pull the trailer out a little bit, the hull should start running up the bunks before the bow gets to the bow rest. i personally power load, i'll line it up and float on until the friction of the hull on the bunks stops the boat....then slowly apply power until the bow moves up to the bow rest.

sorry, no winterization tips....i'm in austin and just cheat for the few times it gets that cold here.

good luck and write back with any more questions

87 Blue Saltare
09-18-2004, 01:35 PM
COngrats! You'll love your new boat!

WOT: I can get about 39 at about 4400 rpm. There is definitely going to be some water vapor (or steam) coming out your exhaust while you're hauling it like that. Especially when the water get's cool you'll see it. Unless it's smoke, or excessive, it's normal. Skiing at 22 off or longer you shouldn't be able to smell it or notice it. Salty is right about power v. speed on these boats (and he's an awesome resource for you). A change of prop can probably get you a few more mph if that's what you want. Call the OJ guys and tell them what you want.

Trailer: I have the same issues with my boat. Buy one of those oversized rollers first of all. Then follow Salty's advice. There is one ramp (where I seldom go because of this issue) where I have to pull to trailer WAY out of the water and push the boat way up on it. Then I get out and hook the boat, drop the trailer back in the water and crank it up over the roller. That sucks. Power loading is way easier and faster....so part of it may be your ramp as well as how deep you're going...you'll just have to play with it. The Supra noses drop and some trailers weren't made really well for them.

Teak: get one of those three step maintenance deals and go for it. You'll like the oiled look.

Also from Texas, I don't know winterizing tips...

09-20-2004, 04:07 PM
Thanks for all of the replys guys. I think I took care of the fuel issue -- I found that the vacuum advance wasn't hooked up properly on the distributor. In fact, it wasn't hooked up at all. The next time I went out, it ran better... but still not perfect. There was a few instances when it did run perfect for a few seconds, and it felt and sounded great. I figured the rest of the problem may be from a bad tank of gas. I added some stabilizer and topped it off with some high quality premium and now I'm on the way back out this afternoon to try it out. I tried to get out yesterday but I had left my perko switch on and all of the batteries had drained out for some reason. I was dead at the ramp so I brought it back home and have been charging all day.

Mine is unique in that it has 3 batteries and a perko switch. So far I haven't really figured out how to make the batteries run the way they should. I'm going to try using 1 as a starter battery and then flipping the switch to all once its started. This should give it enough juice to run the stereo as well as recharge the battery.

I just finished the 3-step tweak restorer and it looks great. I've also fixed a few small little things that we bugging me. I also ordered a new fuel/water seperator and the bracket to mount it. My other questions were these:

There is a small canister in line with the fuel seperator/filter. It's a small brass looking thing -- is this some sort of pressure regulator? I haven't been able to find a replacement, anyone have a source or can even tell me what to look for?

I have no blower. The guy told me he removed it and never thought it was necessary. I'm sure it must be necessary or it wouldn't be in there in the first place. I have a spare blower but no idea where to hook it up. The air ducting in the front (on either side of the windshield and under the cockpit) is completely rotted away and full of holes. I can't figure out how these lines run to the engine compartment, as I can't find any evidence of them there. I also can't find anything thats hooked up to the vents on the very back of the boat. There are tubes visible on the inside of these vents, but again they are rotten and I can't figure out where they run to. The rear ski-locker and the entire area under the rear seat is filled with stereo equipment in my boat and quite hard to access. Can someone tell me if I need to spend all the time to redo these lines, and where I should mount the blower?

The only other issue I can think of is that I have water leaking from the prop-shaft when the boat is in drive. Water sprays off of the shaft right above the boot for the water jacket. I can tell that my prop has a few nicks on it ( I know ... I know... it will be fixed soon...) but is there a bearing or something that could have vibrated to death in there? Maybe this is normal?

Thanks again for all of the help. The season is almost done up here (maybe 2 more weeks if we're lucky) but its 80 outside today and I'll be on the water soon!

Thanks,

Rob

skiman_61
09-22-2004, 11:59 AM
Winterize: Get a kit from overtons and run antifreeze through the block. Get the motor up to operating temp first so the thermostat is opened. Change the oil at the same time.

The distributor is likely a Mallory. You can get an electronic conversion kit for it and a cap at Summit Racing online. I tuned mine up this way and experienced a world of difference. I run a SS 4 blade and am getting 42mph.

You're supposed to lubricate the steering cable anually. I am still working on getting the seats out of the stern to do so. A small drip on your prop shaft is normal. Lots of water indicates a bad seal. Does it still leak after it has been in the water for awhile?

Blower hoses run to the front and rear vents in the hull.

I have an '87 that I've had since '98

wotan2525
09-22-2004, 12:18 PM
This was the post I had made as a guest -- for some reason it wasn't showing up anymore on my system so I'm reposting it:


Thanks for all of the replys guys. I think I took care of the fuel issue -- I found that the vacuum advance wasn't hooked up properly on the distributor. In fact, it wasn't hooked up at all. The next time I went out, it ran better... but still not perfect. There was a few instances when it did run perfect for a few seconds, and it felt and sounded great. I figured the rest of the problem may be from a bad tank of gas. I added some stabilizer and topped it off with some high quality premium and now I'm on the way back out this afternoon to try it out. I tried to get out yesterday but I had left my perko switch on and all of the batteries had drained out for some reason. I was dead at the ramp so I brought it back home and have been charging all day.

Mine is unique in that it has 3 batteries and a perko switch. So far I haven't really figured out how to make the batteries run the way they should. I'm going to try using 1 as a starter battery and then flipping the switch to all once its started. This should give it enough juice to run the stereo as well as recharge the battery.

I just finished the 3-step tweak restorer and it looks great. I've also fixed a few small little things that we bugging me. I also ordered a new fuel/water seperator and the bracket to mount it. My other questions were these:

There is a small canister in line with the fuel seperator/filter. It's a small brass looking thing -- is this some sort of pressure regulator? I haven't been able to find a replacement, anyone have a source or can even tell me what to look for?

I have no blower. The guy told me he removed it and never thought it was necessary. I'm sure it must be necessary or it wouldn't be in there in the first place. I have a spare blower but no idea where to hook it up. The air ducting in the front (on either side of the windshield and under the cockpit) is completely rotted away and full of holes. I can't figure out how these lines run to the engine compartment, as I can't find any evidence of them there. I also can't find anything thats hooked up to the vents on the very back of the boat. There are tubes visible on the inside of these vents, but again they are rotten and I can't figure out where they run to. The rear ski-locker and the entire area under the rear seat is filled with stereo equipment in my boat and quite hard to access. Can someone tell me if I need to spend all the time to redo these lines, and where I should mount the blower?

The only other issue I can think of is that I have water leaking from the prop-shaft when the boat is in drive. Water sprays off of the shaft right above the boot for the water jacket. I can tell that my prop has a few nicks on it ( I know ... I know... it will be fixed soon...) but is there a bearing or something that could have vibrated to death in there? Maybe this is normal?

Thanks again for all of the help. The season is almost done up here (maybe 2 more weeks if we're lucky) but its 80 outside today and I'll be on the water soon!

Thanks,

Rob

wotan2525
09-22-2004, 12:26 PM
You're supposed to lubricate the steering cable anually. I am still working on getting the seats out of the stern to do so. A small drip on your prop shaft is normal. Lots of water indicates a bad seal. Does it still leak after it has been in the water for awhile?


I have pretty easy access to the steering cable.... how do I get grease into the housing for it? Also, the prop shaft leaks like crazy..... it's not a drip, it's a spray coming off of it -- at temp or not. Looks like it will be a spring project to rebuild that.

Rob

09-22-2004, 02:59 PM
There should be a grease fitting on the steering cable under that rear jump seat. It's always an adventure to work on these things.

Salty87
09-22-2004, 03:23 PM
the guest post showed up 'cause you weren't logged in, would be nice if this message board told you at the time. anyway...glad you came back...

blower- mine is under the port side rear seat. the blower should be in the back of the boat, the vents in the front get air to the engine. the blower goes in the back to pull air through the engine box and blow it out the vents on the stern....hence the name. there's a small hole under that seat that the intake hose from the blower drops into. that allows it to pull air from the lower portion of the bilge....gas fumes are heavier than air and settle down there, given the chance. there's a hole for the output hose in the seat base, it goes to the vents on the stern. if your hoses are all rotten, none of this will work too well but its better than nothing.

perko switch and batteries- i'd guess something in the stereo eats up juice while it's off, maybe the clock but also could be amps that aren't powering all the way down. be careful with the perko switch. when left in the ALL position, all the batteries will only be as strong as the weakest battery.

the in-line fuel cannister is an old fuel filter or something. if you have a new water separator, you can toss the old one....i did.

prop shaft- do you know if you have a dripless packing or the traditional? here's a pick of the dripless (http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PY1HG10X17&variation=&aitem=3& mitem=4). either way, they can be adjusted unless the fiberglass is messed up and you would have noticed a hole in the bottom of your boat.


edit: forgot about the steering cable. most cables can't be greased, they are sealed but some have grease zerks. otherwise, you can grease the tiller arm where the steering cable attaches and also the rudder. i have to remove the middle section of flooring immediately behind the engine box. of course, that means the rear seats have to come out. there's a trick to the seats...the small middle seat has to come out first. it might be screwed to the floor, check under the cushion. once the middle section is out, there's enough room to get the outer seats. the outer seats have 1 screw each on the gunnel side of the seat. it's not screwed into anything, it just holds the seats in place by sticking through a hole in the inner-gunnel. once you see it, it'll make sense.

ok, i'm done. whew.

wotan2525
09-22-2004, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Salty87

lots of stufffffff



Wow... thanks for the great reply. With you and everyone elses here heads together it sounds like there is nary an inch of this boat that isn't known. I appreciate it! I just typed up a huge reply only to have firefox crash on me... I'll try my best to redo it.....!!

Luckily when my rear seats were rebuilt the owner raised them slightly off the ground and made it very easy to access the floorboard behind the engine box. I can take out 2 screws and have access from the engine all the way back to the prop. I'm pretty sure I have the sealed prop but I'm not sure where its leaking from. Next time I'm out I'll try and take a picture of it. The fiberglass is certainly not damaged -- there is also a water line that goes into a jacket around the prop (for cooling?), so I'm wondering if maybe its that seal that is leaking.

Next spring I might take the time to remove the backseats and reduct the blower. I will probably mount it in the tunnel opposite the fuel lines and duct it up through the stern vents. At the same time I will reduct the intakes as well.

If the checkbook allows I'm also going to try and replace the steering cable. I'm sure its pretty stiff and if there is no way to grease it then it should be replaced I think. It certainly takes 2 hands to turn at this point.

My other question is about the electronic ignition -- my mechanic said he thought I already had some kind of electronic ignition. It seems like most other people with a PCM 454 have points -- was there an electronic version or did the previous owner upgrade mine? I've already been able to tell that this engine drinks like a fish -- I'm very much wishing I could afford an EFI.

I don't know if you saw my other post about the windshield.... but is there any way to tighten the rivets that hold the entire thing together? In big water mine shakes and the center window can come unlatched and swing back into the aisle way. This so far has bent up the hinge and been a huge pain to get back to its right place.

Thanks again.

Rob

skiman_61
09-23-2004, 03:53 PM
My 87 has two blowers on separate switches. One in the bilge itself and one under the rear seat. Right side.

Condenserless ignition will improve your fuel economy. It did in my case anyhow. THere should be a grease fitting on your steering cable.

87 Blue Saltare
09-25-2004, 12:06 AM
I have only one blower and it is exactly like Salty describes.

I replaced steering cable last spring. It's not hard at all. Buy the new helm that goes with it from skidim...it's worth it. Also while you're back there, re-pack the rudder seal. While you've got the rudder out, check and make sure it's not bent. If you have a zerk on your steering cable it's way at the back by the rudder.

I have points on my distributor. Whatever.

Good luck.

87 Blue Saltare
09-27-2004, 08:15 PM
What do you think our boats are worth?
86-89?

wotan2525
09-28-2004, 02:15 PM
Well I'll tell you right now I paid just under $10k for mine. 315 hours but the motor was rebuilt in 2003. Reupolstered and carpeted in 2002. Came with a tower, board racks, and a huge stereo system. Pretty much everything was in good condition and it included a dual axle trailer and a bunch of other misc stuff. I'm feeling good about the price that i paid and would hope its worth a little over that if it was cleaned up and sold in the summer instead of right before MN winter.

Rob

Saltareowner
09-29-2004, 09:56 PM
Just sold my 89 for 13500.00 it was in really good shape and the guy felt he got a bargin!!!

Salty87
09-30-2004, 07:13 PM
right on wotan, was that the one with the subs under the rear seat? if so, i saw that ad and was curious about the boat. sounds like you made out pretty well.

wotan2525
10-12-2004, 01:53 PM
Yep... thats the one that I purchased. Now I'm running into an electrical problem. It has 3 batteries on a perko switch. Even if I turn the switch to off after running it, when I go back to the boat all 3 batteries are dead. I suspect that the alternator is bad or not strong enough for the 3 batteries. Looks like yet another project for the spring....

Rob

Salty87
10-12-2004, 06:12 PM
it would take a while and a pretty big draw to drain 3 fully charged batteries. not to mention, the perko should be saving some of them depending on how it's wired.

what setting do you leave the perko on while you're away? are you sure the batteries are good?...no bad cells or water level getting extremely low?

i'd get a digital voltmeter and check the output of the alternator and what kind of charge the batteries have after running. you can do this on the hose if you have access to the boat.

do you know if the alternator is stock? if so, you need to upgrade. the stock 35 amp would take all weekend to recharge 3 batteries with the stereo playing.

this is a good time to make sure the stereo was installed properly, correct size wires and fuses. also, do you need 3 batteries? all the extra batteries do is let you listen to the tunes longer while the boat is off. when they get drained, they have to be charged up and you'll need a big alternator to do that.

wotan2525
10-14-2004, 05:09 PM
I leave the perko switch on the "off" setting after I park the boat in the driveway. I think you're right about the alternator not being big enough. I'm def going to try and track down a bigger one to put in in the spring. Going by only the dash voltometer I'm only seeing about 10.5v at idle and only a little more at speed. Its certainly not enough. I don't know about marine electronics, but a car alternator should put at AT LEAST 13.5 - 14v. I have a hunch that this is my problem.... even though the alt is strong enough to run the engine, it's not enough juice left over to run the electronics and they just drain the bats. Last time out all 3 batteries should have been charged and I ran the stereo and the bilge pumps (not continuosly) for about 3 hours. On the way back to the dock the stereo was cutting out and I figured I must have drained the batteries. I turned all the electronics off and assumed the alt had put some sort of charge on the batteries, but no such luck. It was dead the next time I went to start it.

Anyway... at this point it's all going on a big list of things to do in the spring. The boat will be winterized this weekend or early next week and put in storage until (fingers-crossed) late april or early may when it will return to icey MN water.

Rob