Did Supra ever use the Ford 460?

[cadunkle]

I've never seen any ski boats with a 460 Ford engine. Seems like most were small blocks, which were 351w Fords (across nearly all the manufacturers until late 90s/early 2000s) with the occasional SBC, and all the big block boats were 454. I'm a Ford guy, my car has a 460 and my truck has a 460. It kills me that my Saltare has a 454 but a 351w would probably not be that great in this boat and my last boat had a 350 anyhow. The 454 is a fresh rebuild with low hours so no desire to change the engine.

Was reading through the owners manual the other day and it said something in the oil section about 460 or 454 engines, which got me wondering what years and boats they used a 460 in or if it was a typo? Only inboards with big block Fords I've seen are older Chris Crafts which had twin 427s in some cruisers and single 390 or 427 in some runabouts.

Just curious...

[mapleleaf]

Interesting, I found a Toyota inboard ski boat with a lexus power plant forsale the other day, I think it was a '98-99, looked kinda like a Malibu......Thought it was pretty cool.......
http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&postid=12288
Found it, it was newer than I thought...
Sorry for the thread jack, your 460 question reminded of it!!!!

[cadunkle]

I saw one of those a while back when I was looking for a boat. Thought it was unusual as I'd never heard of a Toyota ski boat.

[DKJBama92Mariah]

I've never seen any ski boats with a 460 Ford engine. Seems like most were small blocks, which were 351w Fords (across nearly all the manufacturers until late 90s/early 2000s) with the occasional SBC, and all the big block boats were 454. I'm a Ford guy, my car has a 460 and my truck has a 460. It kills me that my Saltare has a 454 but a 351w would probably not be that great in this boat and my last boat had a 350 anyhow. The 454 is a fresh rebuild with low hours so no desire to change the engine.

Was reading through the owners manual the other day and it said something in the oil section about 460 or 454 engines, which got me wondering what years and boats they used a 460 in or if it was a typo? Only inboards with big block Fords I've seen are older Chris Crafts which had twin 427s in some cruisers and single 390 or 427 in some runabouts.

Just curious...

cadunkle,

I can't say that I've ever seen or heard of a Supra with a 460 Ford in it. I'm pretty sure that even the early Supra Beast had a 454. From the mid-eighties (maybe earlier) until 'somewhere between '96 and '98 Supra used PCM marinizations. I've read the manual you are referring to and saw the 460 specs you're talking about. I can only assume that at some time, PCM offered both the 460 and the 454 to boatbuilders. I can only further assume that PCM discontinued the 460 from their lineup as redundant and unpopular. Either Supra never ordered the 460 or it was discontinued before Supra became a PCM customer.

At least that's the way I had it worked out in my head.:confused:

On a side note, I am a Chevy guy through and through,but I adore the 351W mill in my Mariah. It hurts, but I really do appreciate it for the great motor that it is. Once I replaced the finicky Holley 4010 with a Holley 4160, the motor has been a stellar performer and absolutely flawless in operation.

Me drive a Ford truck, no way. However, when the Windsor in my boat eventually gives out, it will be replaced by another Windsor, probably a 393 stroker motor.

[Credo]

I am not sure about this but didn't the 351w offer a hydraulic Roller camshaft and the chevy didn't offer that kind of technology performance until the LT-1 which the Corvette LT-1 replaced alot of PCM fords in the 90's. As far as 454 over 460's no telling but having built motors I know that its alot cheaper to build a chevy motor then a ford.

[DKJBama92Mariah]

Credo, the Windsor had a hydraulic flat-tappet cam setup until 1992. For model year 93 and after the 351W got a roller cam and lifters.

I think GM truck 350s went to roller lifters in 96 when it became the Vortec 5700. This change probably made it to the marinizering companies that year or the next.

[rludtke]

I think GM truck 350s went to roller lifters in 96 when it became the Vortec 5700. This change probably made it to the marinizering companies that year or the next.

I think you are right about the Vortec 5700, but as a powerplant, it didn't work out very well. The Vortec 5700 was a redesign of the venerable 350, but it was not the same block, and possibly not the same heads. I had a 1996 Suburban (my wife's vehicle) with this engine, and had lots of problems, one of them I couldn't ever solve. The intake manifold to block parting flanges would leak coolant out of the block at rest and when running. I tried several times to get it to seal, but could not get it to last more than a year. I did that twice and gave up and traded it in for a 2000 Tahoe with the next generation Vortec. The new vortec is smaller, (5.3 liter), more powerful, more economical, and very high tech.

Meanwhile I am still driving my 1995 K1500 pick up truck, now with 175,000 miles on it. This was the last year of the venerable 350, which I think GM has really baked the kinks out of, as that darn engine (and truck) just refuses to let me down.

I don't know exactly why GM offered the Vortec for only 4 years or so, it must have been an interim until the next-gen was ready, but why bother? I think the Vortec turned out to be a step backwards. It is really hard to beat the old 350, but I think the next-gen did just that.

[DKJBama92Mariah]

Rick. you're partially correct. The motor in your '95 truck is the 350 TBI used from 87-95. The main differences between that motor and the Vortec are not in the block though. The Vortec 5700 was the last of the "generation 1" small-blocks. The main upgrades were the new "vortec" heads, roller lifters and cam, and the switch from throttle-body to multiport EFI.

The Vortec heads are a variant of the Gen II LT1 heads, but without the reverse-flow cooling of the LT1 motor.

The switch from a hydraulic flat-tappet cam to a roller cam DID necessitate a change in the block to accommodate the roller-lifters. To my knowledge, this, and the lack of provisions for a traditional distributor are the main significant differences in the blocks themselves.

The switch to multiport EFI from TBI required a different intake manifold. These changes netted the vortec 255 horsepower compared to the 350 TBI's 200. Torque was largely unchanged; the changes they made allowed the motor to sustain high torque number higher in the rpm range to produce higher horsepower numbers.

All of this info I confirmed at Wikipedia of all places. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Vortec_engine#5700

I am not surprised your had trouble out of your 96, it being the first year of production of that motor. I had one in a 98 half ton and it was trouble-free, but admittedly, I only had it for 72,000 miles. My father drove a 95 Tahoe with the TBI 350 until just last year and the motor has been rock solid.

I agree with you that current generation Vortec small-blocks are excellent motors. Now these ARE totally different than the Gen I motors and are based off the LS1 motor. I have a 5.3 in my 08 Sierra half-ton and it has been great so far. With proper maintenance, they have a reputation for lasting a LONG time.

Sorry for the thread drift cadunkle.

[beast 496]

Guys, the current marine Vortec 350 and 305 are still in production. A much better engine than the previous GM small block. The current Vortecs produce up to and above 330 hp in many applications of Marine engines. The Vortec engines also spin at much higher RPM's than the older 350's. 5,500 rpm is not out of the ordinary. The blocks are slightly different, no fuel pump, platic timing chain cover, Votec heads, 8 bolt intakes, ect.
I do have a service manual for a PCM 460 Ford. The book is basically new, as I have never had to really open it due to never seeing one. lol. The old 460 was such a slug on power anyway 340 hp was the rating, basically the same as the Chevy 454 rated at 330 hp. Al

[DKJBama92Mariah]

Yes Al, I am aware that the Gen 1 smallblock is still in production for marine use as well as crate-engines. The higher rpm limits you cite are the direct result of the changes GM made to roller lifters and better flowing heads in 96.

Again, I apologize to OP for the thread drift. Let's try and keep this thread on the OPs topic, Ford 460s in Supra boats.