Restoration progress (with pics)

[TitanTn]

Some of you may have noticed that I'm a new member here and have been asking a few questions. I've also been reading through several years of posts from all the regulars. Thanks to everyone.

Here are a few things I've been doing. Starting to wet sand and polish. Refinishing the swim platform, etc.

I have a question about the small gelcoats cracks I have around the exhaust and other places on the stern. Are these anything to be concerned about? Anyone repaired something like this? I've read a DIY for how to repair something like this but I wonder about the practicality of matching the gelcoat color. Thoughts?

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/stern_polish.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/swimplatform.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/stern_cracks.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/stern_cracks2.jpg

[Okie Boarder]

It might not be a bad idea to consider fixing those since they travel so far. Since you're prepping to wetsand and polish, now would be a good time to do it.

I'm not much help on gelcoat repair...I've yet to do it myself. I've seen a few threads on it and it looks like the best approach is to use a dremel to drill out along the crack and create a valley for the application of the new gel.

[jet]

Hey guys..are theses stress cracks?? Anything to worry about or just cosmetic? Jet

[wotan2525]

I think your boat is my twin. Our gelcoat color appears to be the same.... I've seen two other red on white Saltares of that vintage in person and both of them had a darker red than my boat.

I don't have any great insight into what those stress cracks mean -- except to tell you that my boat doesn't have them that go out nearly that far.

[Okie Boarder]

I'd say the ones around the swim deck "could" be from stress. I'd bet they are more from the method used to drill and screw in at those areas. It seems like they all originate from screw or bolt holes. It might be worth trying to get a look at the area behind where the swim deck mounts to see, if possible. Otherwise, just fix them. Since those are all below or at the waterline, it probably would be good to fix them so you minimize seepage of water in between the gel and glass.

[sybrmike]

Yeah Wot - I thought I was seeing double...

I'm no expert on gelcoat, but my .02. Fiberglass needs a coating to fully waterproof it and protect from the elements. Gelcoat works great, but is hard and brittle, so it chips and cracks whereas fiberglass will flex a bit.

The cracks originating from the screw holes may just be from improper drilling or tightening the fasteners too much. However, the fact that they've traveled so far may indicate you've got some flexing going on back on the transom (which would also explain those around the swim platform). A one time big bump or overload of the platform could also be the culprit. Either way, I'd check the transom for stiffness and flex in case the glassed in plywood has given up - otherwise you risk the cracks re-appearing after any repairs.

I'd consider any stress cracks above the waterline as cosmetic (fix em if you want), but definitely repair those below. Constant wed/dry hot/cold cycles can cause the gel to delaminate and flake off. Gelcoat repair is like good auto body work - an artform. Not necessarily hard, but difficult to do right. Lots of books and articles on the web, but the real basics are: wipe on a marking solution to show all the cracks, grind them down to the glass full length plus a little, mix to match new gelcoat (the hardest part), apply (use waxed gel or cover to cure), block sand, repeat gel application if needed, sand, compound, polish.

The good news is it's the off-season for boat repair & you might be able to find a hungry glass man. Good luck.

[DKJBama92Mariah]

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/stern_cracks.jpg



These cracks are why you must always chamfer a hole into the gelcoat using a countersink bit before driving a screw into it.
http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/754005/754005284872lg.jpg

[wotan2525]

Also -- I'm curious now that I see your swim deck off: do you have access from the inside or did you just remove the bolts and let the nuts fall inside? If so.. how are you planning on remounting it?!

[TitanTn]

Thanks guys. I'm no fiberglass expert either, but I too think that below the waterline I shouldn't have any cracks. These cracks are very shallow, but are cracks none the less. I'm going to look into fixing them myself. I have a gelcoat repair kit. My only concern is matching the gelcoat color, but at least these are below the waterline...

[TitanTn]

Also -- I'm curious now that I see your swim deck off: do you have access from the inside or did you just remove the bolts and let the nuts fall inside? If so.. how are you planning on remounting it?!

Uhhhh..... oh crap? Now I'm understanding why all the top bolts were machine bolts and the bottom bolts were lag. I thought perhaps the PO had just put the wrong bolts in. It didn't feel like there was a nut on the other side. I thought they were all supposed to be lag bolts.

So what will it take to get to the back of the bolts? Will the tank have to come out?

[TitanTn]

I think your boat is my twin. Our gelcoat color appears to be the same.... I've seen two other red on white Saltares of that vintage in person and both of them had a darker red than my boat.

I don't have any great insight into what those stress cracks mean -- except to tell you that my boat doesn't have them that go out nearly that far.

It's nice to know I have a twin! I hope to get mine looking as good as yours soon.

[sybrmike]

Uhhh... possible double crap. Yup, most likely gonna hafta pull the rear ski locker insert and gas tank to acess all the nuts & bolts back on the transom.

Plus, I think the floor on the 86 was solid under the gas tank all the way to the transom. My 89 is open under the tank. Check with Wotan, Salty87, & others with earlier Salts. If possible, I'd recommend thru bolts with backing plates for the platform brackets to stiffen them up - lags coulda been the crack culprit from the beginning.

[wotan2525]

Triple crap! Mine has a floor under the gas tank all the way to the transom. I also only had lag bolts in the lower holes which (stupidly) I didn't replace with backing plates when I replaced my stringers. Now they are loose and leak like crazy and have no way to access them.

One of these springs I'll pull the gas tank (again!) and cut some access holes in the floor so I can tighten them up. Until that happens... auto bilge.

[Salty87]

these guys are right. improper installation practices likely contributed greatly as does a thin transom. when i had my floor off you could see light shining thru spots on the transom (translucent, not clear). the transom isn't under the stress that an i/o transom would see. that's not a great thing for the swim platform though. lag bolts were an awful design.

don't be afraid of taking the tank out and cutting some access holes. you can easily seal it all back up and under the tank no one will know. when i put my floor back in i went all the way to the transom like the factory had done. i wish i had left it open like the sunsports.

for fixing the spider cracks, i kinda took the easy way out. i opened the bigger cracks up a little more and used marine tex to fill them in. the gel on my transom was stained, bad layup imo, so i wasn't concerned about matching colors.

for the platform, i'd seal those holes real good and start over. you'll never get a solid platform trying to re-use them. i added a 1/4" aluminum backing plate to all 3 of the brackets. over drill the holes, use thickened epoxy to seal the holes, and then drill through the epoxy for your new holes....and throw the lag bolts in the trash.

with access holes you can seal the exhausts better too. in fact, i'd take it to the ramp with the floor opened and see if you've got any leaks...after sealing the platform holes. :)

[TitanTn]

Oh boy. I guess I'll be pulling the tank. I was going to replace the floor, carpet, strengthen seats, etc next year, but it looks like I may have pushed that project on myself a little quicker than I was anticipating.

I'll pull the tank and put some backing plates on some through bolts. The only good news that I can think of is that all the lag bolts were very solid. The funny part is that I just filled the tank for winter storage and now I've got to drain it. I've also got to get with my basement clearing project so I can make room to bring it inside.

I think for the stress cracks I'm going to open them a little, mix some gelcoat, and see how well I can blend the color. I've got a few other minor places I want to repair and so testing the process on the transom, under the platform, seems like a good place to start. Thanks for all the input.

[TitanTn]

It's been a while since I've given an update. I've got the old floor out, and in the process of putting the new floor in. I think in comparison to a lot of stories I've read here, I'm very lucky. No water in the foam. The worst of the damage was around the floor supports that were cut into the stringers by the factory. I've removed the damaged wood, treated everything with CPES and put new supports in.

I've got all the floor pieces cut and just fiberglassed them today. I'm hoping to get them in the boat by the end of the week.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/floor_up.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/floor_up2.jpg

[sybrmike]

Dry foam? Only cross braces in need of repair? You lucky dog! Looks like maybe some PO "aftermarket" stringer bracing around the tow pylon mount. I'd check that out further... Congrats & continued progress.

[TitanTn]

Yeah, I definitely feel that I'm in the minority.

The PO did do something to strengthen the tow post area. Most of the "aftermarket" work seems to be in place to give more support to the floor. I can't find any issues with the stringers or any moisture issues.

[jet]

Is there really aftermarket bracing?? Jet

[Okie Boarder]

Yeah, looks like things are pretty dry. It does look like some plywood has been "sistered" on to the inner area of those main stringers by the pylon. Have you drilled any pilot holes in any of the stringers to check the wood condition? What does it sound like if you know on it? Hollow or solid?

[oldman]

Mine looked like that on the left side of the sunsport, but when you dig out the foam you will always find water or you wouldn't have any rot. The foam is your enemy until it is gone. Until you have air and drainage your wood stringers will be under the rot attack.

[TitanTn]

Is there really aftermarket bracing?? Jet

Heh. I think anything done after the factory is done is "aftermarket."

[TitanTn]

Yeah, looks like things are pretty dry. It does look like some plywood has been "sistered" on to the inner area of those main stringers by the pylon. Have you drilled any pilot holes in any of the stringers to check the wood condition? What does it sound like if you know on it? Hollow or solid?

Yeah, I've drilled pilot holes in the stringers and also dug out portions of the foam. I have not found a drop of water. Most of the pilot holes brought out dry wood. A couple of them were dark, but still didn't have water. I've injected CPES in all the holes and filled them back in. The only back spots I heard when knocking was right around the area where the floor supports were cut in. I've cleaned those areas out as well, coated with CPES, and glassed the new supports in. I'm pretty confident that what I have is solid.

[cadunkle]

What's the deal with that sticker on the back of your boat? My '89 Saltare has the same exact sticker. Supposedly the floors and stringer were gone through a few years ago. I see some excess resin here and there and stringers and floor are solid, from what I can tell. I'm thinking the company that put that sticker on did some repairs at some point. Just curious since I see the same sticker on your boat in the same spot as mine.

[sybrmike]

Marketing hype - I think every Supra of the era had em (including my 89 Salt). Supra truely was a pioneer of the times, but I guess they thought they needed the Supratrac, Kevlar, and super resin stickers to justify their higher price point in the market at that time.

[cadunkle]

Just to be clear, are you referring to the ame 4000 ashland checmicals high performance marine sticker on the transom?

[sybrmike]

Yup, mine had the same sticker in the same spot.

[TitanTn]

I hope to remove that sticker whenever I get back to working on the outside of the boat. That may be next spring sometime...

[TitanTn]

I'll post some more pics soon, but I've got the floor completely in. I was making a few tweaks today to how the removeable pieces fit, and had the tablesaw kick back a small board at what seemed like 900 mph. Nothing is broken, but it is very swollen, bruised, and tender. No pain, no gain!

[mapleleaf]

Kickback sucks, glad you kept your finger......can't let your "guard" down for a second on them saws.......

[TitanTn]

All of the new floor is in now. Resin is dry, and everything is really solid. I'm so glad at least one portion of the job is done. I'll be buffing the interior next, installing the radio, speakers and then the carpet. And then onto the second list of to-dos...

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/floor_done_resized.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/floor_done2_resized.jpg

[jet]

Time to build on of these!! 8-)

[sybrmike]

Congrats on the milestone - sure is a good feeling.

Looks like you're keeping the pylon, so are you going back with the access hand hole or making the section in front of the pylon removable (doesn't look like the seams are glassed)?

[TitanTn]

Time to build on of these!! 8-)

I like yours Jet, but I'm going back with the rear seating. I need the people capacity.

[TitanTn]

Congrats on the milestone - sure is a good feeling.

Except for the finger on my right hand, absolutely!


Looks like you're keeping the pylon, so are you going back with the access hand hole or making the section in front of the pylon removable (doesn't look like the seams are glassed)?

I'm making the whole section in front of the pylon removable. The whole section behind the motor is removable as well. I've cut a u-shape into the piece in front of the pylon to wrap around the pylon. I'm going to do something creative to fill that hole when I put in the carpet. It doesn't have to be supportive as the only thing that goes over that area is the dog house base.

[jet]

TitanTn:
rear seat-3 people

sundeck and fat sac holder-3 people+700lbs+sundeck??

next problem??

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Even with the rear seat in place you should be able to put a 350# sac in the ski locker and a 250# sac under the rear bench seat. Add some dead weight in the gunwales and you are up to 700# or more in the back.

[TitanTn]

Ha! I hear you. But my rear seat is a U shape, so I can fit 4. And I have a sundeck (I know, it's small), plus your passengers can't ride on the sundecks so if I extended the deck it would be removing legal riding space. In addition to the legal issue, I will be carrying some small passengers and wouldn't want them messing around up on a sundeck while I'm underway. I know you like your deck, but I'll be happy with my basically stock interior.

[oward1202]

Jet- Your sundeck is awesome. I would love to add one to my comp. Does it go back down to normal seating as well or is it fixed as a sundeck?

[jet]

My riders sit on the deck (up to-4) with feet on the floor and it is legal here. lol

oward1202: It is fixed.

[oward1202]

Great Jet, thanks for the info. I need to find out if that is legal here or not. My first thought is that is not but I want to find out for sure because I would love to have a sundeck. And when I say "I would love it", I mean that my soon to be wife would love it. That is her only complaint with the Comp. Yes, I said soon to be. We are getting married the day after Christmas. I know it's a big plunge but I met her on the lake and she wants nothing more on a nice day than to be on the boat, so it must be meant to be.

[jet]

just remember your tsm6 will never yell at you. lol Goodluck man.

[oward1202]

Haha! Very true. Thanks a lot. I gotta get some pictures of the boat on here also so yall can give some advice on what to do next. It's a pretty sleek boat already. Black and off white(or bone color). I removed the original striped decals and put on simple black Supra decals.

[jet]

Yeah. I love black. Show us your boat man.

[oward1202]

I will work on getting it on here tonight for sure.

[dusty2221]

Jet, could your deck not be modded to flip back on itself? A hinge in the middle? That would allow it to be folded back for rear seated people, and flipped over for the deck and to provide seating above the sack in the floor.

[jet]

Yes.. My back half is based on the 07' Mastercraft X-7 direct drive. It had a rear hatch in the rear for storage and then a rear seat for 3-4 people in front of the small storage area. You could pull the bottom seat cushion out and put it on top so you had storage underneath for equipment and fat sacs. After seeing that I knew my seat was going bad anyway from people standing on it, throwing heavy fat sacs on it and Laura didn't have a place to lay out..and I really like watching her lay out. lol. So I did one better and made mine the same but made it larger and hinged. Just like in your boat people always sit on the rear pad and put there feet in the seat and the same with mine. When my sac is full and the deck is top is down, people just sit on it and put there feet on the floor..same but different. so seat not really needed. I still havent put the piano hinge and gas shocks on it yet Im thinking I might make it 2"-4" larger for another 100 lbs in there. but I do see your idea, mine is just a little diff. Any other ideas out there..Im not afraid to copy someone with a better one. lol

[Okie Boarder]

It's looking good. Glad to see you got a major step completed.

[TitanTn]

Another progress report. I've spent more time than I anticipated finishing a lot of small projects. I adjusted the removable floor sections, cleaned several rats nests of wires around the engine, installed the bilge pump and float switch, installed a new thermostat, temp sending unit, new water separating filter, new hoses and clamps, painted rear vents, buffed interior gel coat and patched holes from old bimini hardware. I've got to sand the gelcoat patches and do a little more buffing and I think I'll be ready to install carpet. I'm hoping to have some time over the holiday break to hit it hard. We'll see what takes precedence, my boat project or the wife's to-do list.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/front_bilge.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/rear_bilge.jpg

[jet]

Nice job man..I am right behind you on this one.

[TitanTn]

Carpet is mostly in. Still wrapping it around corners and such. Installed my new radio. You'll see the wired "commander" in the picture. This will be mounted in the rear of the boat so I can control the radio without having to get out of the water.

I've been slowed down over the holidays as I've taken on a new project shown in the last pic. Hopefully it'll be completed soon and it'll be full-time boat again.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/carpet1.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/carpet2.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/radio.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/shed.jpg

[TitanTn]

I've got a question. Have any of you dealt with fuel expansion or slosh coming out of your vent line? I've been looking at how to deal with it and have found a new style of fuel fill that is vented and supposedly deals with this issue.

http://www.iboats.com/Perko-Fill-And-Tank-Vent-Combo/dm/cart_id.162180612--session_id.535949108--view_id.259667

One thing I'm contemplating is that (call me silly) I really like the older style of fuel fill. I mean, this isn't a new boat and I'm proud of that. Any thoughts? The existing fuel fill is like this one:

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SSDF-66127

[stinky_1]

I had a time that I filled the boat up to the top with gas. Then drove 3 hours in the hot sun and parked it for a couple days. One of those days the fuel expanded and leaked out the vent, ran down the side of the hull and has permanently stained the driveway where it spilled out onto.

It just wiped off the side of the hull though

[oldman]

I've got a question. Have any of you dealt with fuel expansion or slosh coming out of your vent line?

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SSDF-66127

My Malibu Skier did that. I secured the 5/8 vent line in a way to take out any dips or level spots and pitched it as sharp upwards from the top of tank to the vent. I think it works better when your tank vent fitting and hull fitting are on the same side, then you can vent rapidly upwards with no sags.

[TitanTn]

Some of you may remember that a couple of months ago I found out that my transom has built in threads for the top swim platform bolts. Kinda cool, except that the strength is just in the area where the threads are. I wanted to make it stronger while I have access. So I've installed some stainless plates and run a bolt back OUT through the transom. I'll put a nut on the outside when I install the platform. All of the pressure is pulling from the top as the bottom lag bolts just hold the bottom of the bracket still. I'm thinking this will be a huge improvement.

The other photo is a shot of the rear gunwale (buffed and polished), newly painted rear vents, and my newly redone teak rail.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/platform_bracket.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/vents.jpg

[jet]

Thats a pretty color boat?? You have a better picture?? Shes looking good!! Jet

[sybrmike]

Nice upgrade on the bracket mounts. Lookin' good.

What did you use to paint the vents? I'm gonna try a good cleaning and saturating in 303 first, but if that doesn't bring em back to my satisfaction...

[jet]

Yeah the vents look great! Does anybody have a upgrade replacement idea on these. I would like something ressed or a updated look. People always sit on them and brake them, so I am replacing them constantly. Any ideas??

[stinky_1]

the vents look like a standard bolt pattern for cooling fans used in electronics. Its hard to tell scaling, but it looks like a 4" fan cover would fit on there perfect. Possibly 3" if my eyes are just wrong.

If thats the case you should be able to go the non conventional way. Maybe look into what the PC cooling market has for case mods on fan covers. Something like those may look cool?

[TitanTn]

Nice upgrade on the bracket mounts. Lookin' good.

What did you use to paint the vents? I'm gonna try a good cleaning and saturating in 303 first, but if that doesn't bring em back to my satisfaction...

Thanks! I already feel better about people hanging out on the platform with these new brackets.

I'm not sure what 303 is, but I just cleaned the vents really well and let them dry completely. I then sprayed some primer and then followed that up with flat, black spray paint. I had to order a new vent and I painted that one as well so it would match the others. It turned out good enough that you won't notice they've been painted unless you start micro-inspecting.

[TitanTn]

Jet - thanks. It's a red boat. I just don't have enough room or light in the basement to take a good picture. You can see how close the back of the boat is to the basement wall. The true color is closest to the color shown at the back corner of the boat.

Stinky - I like the idea and computer fans might work, but you'd have to figure out how to attach the air pipes to the underside. These vents are at least 3.5 inches tall to allow for the bilge vent pipes to be connected. I'm sure something could be fabricated. Flush mount would be cool, but I'll see how long these last before deciding it I want to fabricate something.

[mapleleaf]

I bought replacement vent covers at West Marine, might've been 6 bucks a piece...Mine had most of the louvers broken out so painting wasn't an option....

Am I reading that right? You've got a Saltare in your basement??? I love it......

[TitanTn]

I bought replacement vent covers at West Marine, might've been 6 bucks a piece...Mine had most of the louvers broken out so painting wasn't an option....

Am I reading that right? You've got a Saltare in your basement??? I love it......

Yeah. I bought one from West Marine too.

:) Yeah, in my basement. I had to apply generous amounts of vaseline to get it in there. I'll never put it in there again, but so far it's working for my restoration work. I'll have to try to take a picture of the whole boat in the basement. It's rather comical. In fact, if you noticed the shed picture from a few posts ago, this is why I built the shed. To move junk out of the basement and into the shed.

[sybrmike]

Shed? I thought it was a boat garage.

I feel your pain. I built a large garage with the house so I could store a boat (but not restore one). @#$% HOA wouldn't allow a high bay door, so it's real tight at the top. Even so, with only one lifting point - the cap off resto has been pretty keystone coppish at times. You'd be surprised what you can do in cramped quarters. Keep up the good work.

[mapleleaf]

Loved the shed shot, but somehow knew a Salty wasn't going to end up in it. Love that shed even more knowing its early existence will be to create room for a Supra!!!!

[jsandy]

quick note. i'd weld those bolts to the plate or jbweld them so you can take the swim deck off in the future and not have two bolts just spining away back there

[TitanTn]

jsandy - thanks for that note. I had thought about that as well. I think I'm going to JB Weld it as I don't have any materials to weld stainless.

Here are the shots of my Salty in the basement. It's a tight fit, but at least I'm indoors doing the work. I've also added another one of the shed as it just needs some doors now.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/front_basement.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/left_side_basement.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/right_side_basement.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/shed_done.jpg

[mapleleaf]

Love the Salty's home, the shed is a familiar site I usually do 5 or 6 each spring basically identical to that one!!

[TitanTn]

I'm trying to compete with Oldman for most clamps used. I think he's got me in total number, but I might have some kind of record for most clamps per inch or something like that.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/clamps.jpg

[oldman]

I like those fancy red handled ones on each end!

[mapleleaf]

Titan , I think you've got him beat in the safety clamping dept. too.....No helmets in Oldy's shots!!

[TitanTn]

Titan , I think you've got him beat in the safety clamping dept. too.....No helmets in Oldy's shots!!

Yeah, that's because he has more room in his garage! I'm lucky to find a walking path through my garage. I'll also be lucky to find all the parts as I put her back together.

[mapleleaf]

Yeah, that's because he has more room in his garage! I'm lucky to find a walking path through my garage. I'll also be lucky to find all the parts as I put her back together.

oh I hear ya, space is an issue here as well........

[sybrmike]

Think of it as a continual scavenger hunt - never know what you'll find or where, only that it's not where you left it when you need it. I've got baggies, buckets, and boxes of parts strewn throughout the garage, shelves, attic, office, etc.

[TitanTn]

Man! That makes me feel better! I've got baggies, parts, buckets, screws, etc, spread all over. It seems I can never find the right screws when I need them, so I go buy new ones. It looks better going back together but it sure is inconvenient!

[mapleleaf]

stainless fasteners- backyard shed
drive shaft, strut, prop, whats left of a broken rudder-backyard shed
extra set of gauges, wire, steering cable- basement
swim platform- behind furnace
rear bench-kids play room
impeller-laundry room
ballast bags- deep in basement
boat- 2.5 hrs from home!!!!!!!
Early spring's a treasure hunt 'round here.....

[jet]

Yes..Im stumpped to. I want to pull my cap and repair a small spot, but NO ROOM. If I cant do that I want to drop my boat off somewhere so I can paint my trailer and also get to work on my auto ballast system..BUT I HAVE NO ROOM!! Cant get to my back yard..no friends with xtra land..what can I do?? Jet :(

[TitanTn]

..no friends with xtra land..what can I do?

Make new friends. :-P

[jet]

Lol..I know. We have our lakehouse but Its 2hrs away and know one is there during the week, dont want to leave my baby there. People sneak in and fish our big bass out of the ponds so Im worried my boat might get stripped down.

[oldman]

Titan , I think you've got him beat in the safety clamping dept. too.....No helmets in Oldy's shots!!
I always follow the safety rule when clamping, but it gets a little dark sometimes.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj135/Ivarker/P1030501.jpg

[oldman]

Man! That makes me feel better! I've got baggies, parts, buckets, screws, etc, spread all over. It seems I can never find the right screws when I need them, so I go buy new ones. It looks better going back together but it sure is inconvenient!

Maybe something like this filled with your favorite 316 SS fasteners.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj135/Ivarker/P1030498.jpg

[Rusty]

This is a great thread! Makes we wish I had a work space and time to do my own floor and stringers. You have total control over how meticulous you can be. Thnx for posting.

Rusty

[KarolinaKid]

Keep up the good work TitanTN! Looks Great!

[TitanTn]

Keep up the good work TitanTN! Looks Great!

Thanks KarolinaKid. One day I'll be worthy enough to hang with your Supra.

[TitanTn]

Slow progress. It has taken a lot of hours to rebuild the seat bases. Getting all the angles to work was not a lot of fun. I've still got to finish carpeting and painting the bases before I can start buttoning stuff back down. I just set everything together so I could see what it will look like.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/getting_close.jpg

[Okie Boarder]

Looking good!

[sybrmike]

Looking great - makes me wish at least some of my interior had been salvagable.

[TitanTn]

Tonight I finally figured out the best place to mount my remote radio control pad. I had to create the black trim piece around the pad and I'm pleased with how it turned out. I think it matches the shape of the vents and therefore makes it looks like it belongs.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/stereo_control.jpg

[jet]

Nice...............

[Okie Boarder]

That looks good. Nice idea.

[oward1202]

Perfect! Looks great

[sybrmike]

Great solution - looks factory.

[Longitudinaldreamer]

Titan-

Looks great. I'm in the process of restoring my 86 Salt as well-the pics look pretty familiar:) I'll be pullin the motor and the cap shortly and have a million small side projects too. Where did you get your carpet and do you know what weight it is, IE ounces/yard? I'm sure I have some questions here and there if you don't mind? I have the extreme pleasure of re-doing all the stringers....looking forward to it:rolleyes:

Once again-looks great and love the pics!

[BigCity444]

The interior looks great and I love the remote near the rear swim platform. Nice work!

[TitanTn]

Thanks guys!

Long-something-dreamer: I'll be glad to answer any questions I can and there are plenty of other people on this board that can help as well. There's been a fair amount of rebuilds here. I got my carpet from Ingles Carpet in Dalton, GA. You'll find several references through-out this site, and many have ordered and had it shipped. I'm lucky enough to live close and bought it in person. I can't remember the ounces, but I think it was around 25. I'm very happy with it.

[Okie Boarder]

Check with Viper Customs, too. They carry the carpet Supra currently uses in the new boats.

[vvfdfirefighter]

Jet, could your deck not be modded to flip back on itself? A hinge in the middle? That would allow it to be folded back for rear seated people, and flipped over for the deck and to provide seating above the sack in the floor.

sure it could...make the bench seat a straight seat instead of the angled seats you have now...the backrest of the seat can be hinged to swing up, to complete a bigger sun deck and the bottom seat all the way across, make it one unit and it hinge up and out to finish off the sundeck and hide the sack.

[TitanTn]

It's been a while since I gave an update. I've been getting a lot of small things done, but it's not easy to notice all the changes. Here are some pics just for fun.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/main.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/bow.jpg
The speaker surrounds used to be teak. Now they're vinyl. New speakers, lights, rebuilt cupholders, etc.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/walk_thru.jpg
More teak work. New hinges.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/stern.jpg
The engine cover is new vinyl, but is the factory color. It shows a little more white than the existing vinyl. It should tighten up once it gets in the sun.

[oldman]

Looking good! I bet everyone is getting excited about the new ride.

[rlhahn]

Wow! Everything looks great. All your teak work is outstanding. It pulls the whole boat together. Very nice.

[jet]

Wow! I like that stereo position. Whats next to it?? Nice job man Titan.

[TitanTn]

Wow! I like that stereo position. Whats next to it?? Nice job man Titan.

Thanks Jet. The stereo has a dedicated iPod/iPhone cable so I'm building a location for an iPod holder just to the right of the head unit. I'll be able to run music while also confirming my speed with GPS. Right now I am pulling out the dash and once that's all completed I'll be finishing the iPod mount.

[Okie Boarder]

Looking good!

[TitanTn]

It's been a while since I've given an update. Lots of little things have been going on, but nothing too exciting or something to show with pics. But wow did that change tonight! I got my new dash in and finished up the ipod holder. I also got the depth sounder installed in the dash, but still have the transducer to mount.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/dash.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/dash_closeup.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/ipod_holder.jpg

[csuggs]

Everything looks great Titan. The stereo location and iPod holder are a really good thought. The Sunsport doesn't offer all the space in front of the dash like yours. I bet you can't wait to take her out!

[sybrmike]

Dash looks great. I really like your choice in fabric. I've always thought the padded dash looks kinda dated, but that carbon fiber weave really freshens up the look without looking out of place. You using the same fabric elsewhere in the boat? The Airguides look to be in great shape (the paint was even peeling of the needles on mine).

Great job!

[Okie Boarder]

Looks good. Does your ipod connector go straight to your head unit? I'm looking at possible solutions to have one to plug into te aux in on my eq since my head unit doesn't have an ipod interface.

[TitanTn]

Everything looks great Titan. The stereo location and iPod holder are a really good thought. The Sunsport doesn't offer all the space in front of the dash like yours. I bet you can't wait to take her out!

I am really wanting to take her out. I was planning on trying this weekend, but there's a lot of rain in the forecast and we've hit a cool spell, so maybe in a couple of weeks.

The ipod location is where the original depth sounder was. It was a huge, old unit that looked like it was from the 70s. I had to do something with the large hole left from it, and "custom" ipod holder seemed to be the best idea.

[TitanTn]

Dash looks great. I really like your choice in fabric. I've always thought the padded dash looks kinda dated, but that carbon fiber weave really freshens up the look without looking out of place. You using the same fabric elsewhere in the boat? The Airguides look to be in great shape (the paint was even peeling of the needles on mine).

Great job!

Thanks. I really like how the carbon fiber turned out. I think it's exactly like you stated it. A freshened look without overdoing it. I don't want my boat to look like a 2010 model. I want it to look great for a 25 year old boat.

My Airguides were awful. The trim ring were completely oxidized. The paint inside had completely flaked off and paint flecks seemed to fill the entire glass area. Hard to read and looked hideous. And one didn't work. I took them apart, cleaned and repainted everything. They both work now and seem to be very accurate when compared to a GPS. And with the paintwork, they look pretty much new. I'm very pleased with the outcome.

[TitanTn]

Looks good. Does your ipod connector go straight to your head unit? I'm looking at possible solutions to have one to plug into te aux in on my eq since my head unit doesn't have an ipod interface.

Yes, the iPod cable goes straight to the head unit. That's one of the perks with buying a new radio. It seems that this is almost a standard feature now. And the neat thing is that I can run the iPod through the wired remote on the back of the boat too. It's a very neat interface.

[TitanTn]

Thanks NGAVDBA. Very kind words.

Here is a pic of my new Saltare nameplate. I didn't like the original, scripty font from the mid-80s, so I designed something that is a little updated without being TOO modern. At least that was my goal. I also replaced the bilge vents.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/new_name.jpg

[rideevol]

My hat is off to you TitanTn,
My 89 Mariah winter project is not as aggressive as yours. I am also working in the basement on my boat. Mostly electrical and clean-up as previous owner was clearly not a boat lover. I like many of your detail improvements and can easily picture them on my red and white boat and interior. I have permission from the boss to have the entire upholstery of the seats restored and the initial, returned driver's seat and swim platform cushion are awesome. The one detail I added was a 4 position ignition switch, so that I could have accessory power without cooking the heated choke on the carb.
Still too cold here in the Mid-Hudson valley so I can continue to enjoy my restoration.

[TitanTn]

Rideevol - You're right, so many ideas and so little time. I'm taking all I feel I can handle, but there is a growing list of projects to be tackled for next winter as well.

I'd love to see what you have going on with your restoration project as well. Start a new thread and show us some pics!

[Hagman]

TitanTu
Your boat is turning out to be a gorgeous. How about some more pictures.
Ngavdba
Your boat looks better than new . What wax are you using and what are you doing about water spots?

[TitanTn]

TitanTu
Your boat is turning out to be a gorgeous. How about some more pictures.


Thanks, I really would like to take more pics, but the boat has been in my cramped basement most of the time I've owned it and there's only so many angles I can get of it in its current location. Not to mention that the fluorescent lighting is not the best for photos. I'm planning on taking it out of my basement sometime next week, so I'll definitely be taking more pics then.

There's a section of the boat that I can't get to right now for buffing and polishing, so the first thing I'll be doing when I get her out is to install the swim platform, supertraps, buffing, starting with the fake-a-lake to check out everything, and then HEADING TO THE LAKE!

[TitanTn]

I made it to the lake this weekend. There's still plenty of work to do on the trailer, but the boat is essentially done. This was a shakedown cruise to make sure everything was working correctly, adjust the packing nut, place the depth sounder transducer, change out bunks on the trailer, etc. But we threw in a little fun too. The water was freezing, but the kids couldn't resist getting in the water. Everything worked great. I guess I stop posting in this thread since the rebuild of the boat is officially done. A tower is next...

[sybrmike]

You win! Congrats on beating me to the lake test. Glad everything worked out. Where'd you end up putting the depth transducer?

[TitanTn]

You win! Congrats on beating me to the lake test. Glad everything worked out. Where'd you end up putting the depth transducer?

Not far from where the shaft goes through the hull, about half-way between the bottom of the bilge and the bottom of the main stringer.

[Okie Boarder]

Cool! Any pics of the maiden voyage? Do you know whatthe actual water temp was?

[csuggs]

Not far from where the shaft goes through the hull, about half-way between the bottom of the bilge and the bottom of the main stringer.

Yeah - they say to put the transducer pretty much under the transmission near the output end.

Titan- my hat's off to ya! Post some pics from the lake! Any decision yet on the tower. I can send or post some detail pics of mu MTS tower if you want.

[TitanTn]

Yeah, my transducer is about halfway between the end of the transmission and where the packing rope goes.

The water was somewhere in the low 60s. Definitely teeth-chattering temps.

I am planning on getting a tower from MTS. I've been corresponding with them through email, and have been trying to call, but it's not easy to get a person. Hopefully once I have an initial conversation, it'll be easier to keep going. I'm ready to take the boat there immediately, so I hope they can jump on it. Thanks for your recommendations.

[Okie Boarder]

Low 60's is about where we're at. We did a little surfing Saturday...it was really windy so it wasn't the greatest. Definitely still a bit cold...it was nice having at least a spring suit.

[cadunkle]

Yeah, my transducer is about halfway between the end of the transmission and the packing rope goes.

The water was somewhere in the low 60s. Definitely teeth-chattering temps.

That seems about the best spot on these boats. I put mine right under the transmission just in front of the coupler flange. Figure it'll give me about 1/2 a second warning before I hit anything expensive. lol

Low 60s teeth chattering? I was out last weekend with my 4/3 suit expecting water temps around 50*... Imagine my surprise when the temp gauge said 63*! It was downright pleasant, like a hot tub really.

[Ptownkid]

Damn you southerners...our water is still around 40 degrees...

I made a deal with myself that I'm going in next weekend no matter what though.

[bens250ex]

did you have any pics of the cracks you fixed? i looked through the thread but didn't see any of the fixed product? i have some cracks like this on my swim platform i need to fix while the cap is off.

[TitanTn]

did you have any pics of the cracks you fixed? i looked through the thread but didn't see any of the fixed product? i have some cracks like this on my swim platform i need to fix while the cap is off.

I haven't done anything with them yet. I decided that they weren't deep enough to be an immediate issue. Those will be a project for this coming winter. I did enough repairs though to know that I'd rather repair with gelcoat than MarineTex. Gelcoat is much easier to sand and finish.

[ruby23m]

I think your boat is my twin. Our gelcoat color appears to be the same.... I've seen two other red on white Saltares of that vintage in person and both of them had a darker red than my boat.

I don't have any great insight into what those stress cracks mean -- except to tell you that my boat doesn't have them that go out nearly that far.

That would be me he's referring too!

[crystal waters]

In graphics we go by the Pantone color guides.
In your case try to acquire or borrow from a printer what is known as the "Pantone process guide coated"In it is over 3000 colors achieved by four colour process such that you should be able to find a red maroon to match your color stripe.
I have one in my hand at present and holding it to the screen where you show the new side vent I can see where there are a number of colors that come real close but trying to match to a screen shot is not best case scenario as compared to holding it up to the actual boat.
for example from the book I mention color number DS-126-1 C seems close

[TitanTn]

In graphics we go by the Pantone color guides.
In your case try to acquire or borrow from a printer what is known as the "Pantone process guide coated"In it is over 3000 colors achieved by four colour process such that you should be able to find a red maroon to match your color stripe.
I have one in my hand at present and holding it to the screen where you show the new side vent I can see where there are a number of colors that come real close but trying to match to a screen shot is not best case scenario as compared to holding it up to the actual boat.
for example from the book I mention color number DS-126-1 C seems close

Thanks! I'm pretty familiar with Pantone colors and I intended to convert any color code someone may suggest to Pantone for the final color I'll give to the printer. You're just already a step ahead. I don't have a Pantone color chart available although I may be able to borrow one from someone at work. The color you suggested does look very close. Thanks for the suggestion.

[wotan2525]

Thanks! I'm pretty familiar with Pantone colors and I intended to convert any color code someone may suggest to Pantone for the final color I'll give to the printer. You're just already a step ahead. I don't have a Pantone color chart available although I may be able to borrow one from someone at work. The color you suggested does look very close. Thanks for the suggestion.

Be careful! He's referencing a process color book or a bridge book. This book will only show the representation of Pantone spot colors being built using CMYK. They can be wildly different than Pantone Spot-Colors (which are MUCH more color accurate.)

I work in printing and have had numerous designers that consulted a 4CP book (or even worse, poster -- sometimes having been hit with UV for years) and been very surprised at what they ended up with.

Lastly, you will definitely get yourself in a pickle comparing a bridge book (CMYK) with a Pantone Spot book and a computer monitor (RGB.) 3 different color spaces that will all represent a color in a different way.

[TitanTn]

I've got threads about my boat scattered all over the place, so I think I'm going to just try to bring this thread up-to-date so I have everything in one place. It may take me a couple of days, but I'm going to be posting a lot of pics and updates to this thread.

I'll start by linking to the rudder rebuild thread I created. https://forum.supraboats.com/showthread.php?10163-Repairing-a-older-style-rudder-port&highlight=rebuild+rudder

[TitanTn]

I pulled the engine out last winter to make several repairs and gave the engine a quick once-over while it was out.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/painted_engine.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/manifold_after.jpg

[TitanTn]

I built new backing plates for the tower when I discovered that the tower builder and installer had grossly undersized the plates. Just to be clear, this is a photo of what NOT to do.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/tower_backing_plate.jpg

[TitanTn]

I wanted a bimini that was high enough to stand under, didn't use straps that came down in the back, and didn't cost an arm and a leg. I ended up buying a relatively inexpensive bimini, some misc hardware pieces, and built the aluminum arms that support the back side of the bimini. Very pleased with the results.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/bimini.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/bimini2.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/bimini3.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/bimini4.jpg

[TitanTn]

And now some misc pics from the summer.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/fun/jocassee/3.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/fun/jocassee/8.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/fun/jocassee/covered_at_dock.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/fun/bday_lake_boat.jpg

[TitanTn]

This past Fall I had it wet sanded by Donny. I've been waxing on it all Winter, so I'm anxious to see it on the water this Spring.


http://unumemarketing.com/boat/wetsand/wetsand2.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/wetsand/wetsand4.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/wetsand/wetsand5.jpg

[TitanTn]

I had some missing gelcoat chunks repaired in the bow.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/bow_stop.jpg

I wrapped the fuel line this winter in an attempt to eliminate the heat soak that happens when sitting. We'll see this summer.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/fuel_wrap.jpg

[haugy]

First, the wetsanding looks great!!! Wow, it really pops.

Two, are you having hard start issues from the heat soak? I remember Ngavdba mentioning something about his timing, and that when he dialed that in he had zero hard start issues. I watched my carb after a long time of running and sitting, and it pumped fuel right in, but just won't crank until after a few turns over. Are you having a fuel loss?

[TitanTn]

First, the wetsanding looks great!!! Wow, it really pops.

Thanks! I think it's looking even better now that I've waxed it, but I haven't pulled it out of the basement yet.



Two, are you having hard start issues from the heat soak? I remember Ngavdba mentioning something about his timing, and that when he dialed that in he had zero hard start issues. I watched my carb after a long time of running and sitting, and it pumped fuel right in, but just won't crank until after a few turns over. Are you having a fuel loss?

Yeah, if I get the engine hot, I get heat soak. If I stop for 15 minutes, I have no issues. If I stop for 30 minutes or more it struggles. If I crack the doghouse then it never has any issues. If I get the soak, then yes, it has to turn over for about 5-10 seconds before starting. I'm assuming this is getting the cooler fuel into the carb. Since the results have shown that it seems to be directly related to heat, I'm hoping this wrap helps. I think Csuggs had similar success in using a wrap.

[Jdm89supra]

ok heat soak tell me more I am wondering if that is the same issue after sitting for about thirty min or so but mine I give it two pums of throttle and she will fire right up and run like a top but I am wondering if this is what is happening o and good job on that boat it looks great

[cadunkle]

If you're having issues with heat soak flooding the engine or draining the fuel bowls as fuel expands or boils, try a phenolic spacer under the carb if you have the room.

I use this one, but you can get them shorter, or as a thin plate. Obviously the thicker it is the better it will isolate the carb from engine heat and heat soak. Also when I replaced my intake manifold gaskets I run the restrictor plates in the exhaust crossover. I probably should have blocked the crossover off entirely, but thought some heat might be good as I do tend to run early/late in the season with quite cold air and water temps.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-64930

[TitanTn]

If you're having issues with heat soak flooding the engine or draining the fuel bowls as fuel expands or boils, try a phenolic spacer under the carb if you have the room.



Yep, good call. Csuggs did this in addition to his fuel line wrap, so one, or both helped. I couldn't remember that Phenolic word last night.

[haugy]

So what did you wrap the fuel line with? Looks just like HVAC tape.

[Supra_Comp]

I think I will 'jump' into this as well,.

Titan, were you only having issues on startup? My comp had some bad heat soak with the old motor (no idea how the new motor will be). But I would have hard starting, fuel bowl drainage and after numerous pulls it would buck and bog like crazy.

Was that the pipe from the carb to the fuel pump? Is your fuel line from the tank to the pump rubber?

[TitanTn]

So what did you wrap the fuel line with? Looks just like HVAC tape.

It's a little more than that. It's made specifically to reflect heat. http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/productdetail/heat-shield-sleeve/fuel-line-heat-shield/102/43

[TitanTn]

I think I will 'jump' into this as well,.

Titan, were you only having issues on startup? My comp had some bad heat soak with the old motor (no idea how the new motor will be). But I would have hard starting, fuel bowl drainage and after numerous pulls it would buck and bog like crazy.

Was that the pipe from the carb to the fuel pump? Is your fuel line from the tank to the pump rubber?

I only have issues when I get the engine hot and then shut down for more than 30 minutes without cracking open the doghouse. If it's less than 30 minutes, or if I crack open the doghouse, there are no issues.

The metal pipe that I wrapped is from the pump to the carb. The fuel line from the tank to the pump is rubber.

[Jdm89supra]

ok question plate under the carb i really don't have any more room under my cover at all or is this like a 1/16 thick plate also i use to race for a company called cv4 products what about the heat shield tape that was desighned for nasa so gas or heat canot penetrate also here in nc we get checked regularly about carbs and extra crap on the motor will this make any difrence

[Jdm89supra]

nevermind on the plate i have the cv4 model of that already i don't think the bowls are draining ive checked that

[TitanTn]

I installed some LED interior lights today. They're a little brighter in this pics than in real life, but I'm pleased. For just a few dollars, it's an easy upgrade.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/led_right.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/led_left2.jpg

[haugy]

Nice work! I'm switching over to red LED's as well this year. The blue brought in way too many bugs.

[sybrmike]

Looks sharp! Are they light strips just tucked up under the upholstered side panels?

[TitanTn]

Looks sharp! Are they light strips just tucked up under the upholstered side panels?

Yes, I just tucked them up under the side panel and ran the wiring back to the same line as the stock lighting. Here's what it is:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Multi-color-LED-strip-mini-RGB-controller-waterproof-adhesive-backing-lead-9-V-/261080556123?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item3cc99d225b

[TitanTn]

After about 6 weeks of work (well, mostly waiting between coats), I have my platform refinished. I used the Sybrmike method of mixing turpentine and teak oil at ratios of 75/25, 50/50, 25/75 and 100% oil. I actually put on two coats of straight oil at the end. The biggest time consumer was waiting for the oil to dry. When it was mostly turpentine, it almost dried overnight. But I waited about 1.5 weeks before laying down the last coat of straight oil. I'm pleased so far. The only test now will be to see how it holds up in the water and sun.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/refinished_platform.jpg

[Salty87]

is that a honda with a teak platform? nice! :) teak looks fantastic.

i left the stainless trim off, it scratched up some boards when sliding off.

did you end up sanding?

[TitanTn]

Yep! There's not another Honda like it anywhere. I'm thinking the platform makes a great sport wing. We'll see...

I like the look of the stainless and have trained at least my kids to fall in the water without hurting the board or the platform. So it's staying for me.

Yeah, I ended up sanding. I might could have just done some major cleaning on most of it, but there were some spots that needed sanding, so I just went ahead and sanded it all. I don't think I would have gotten the same results otherwise.

[Jetlink]

Hey Rob, looks like you got some stuff on the license plate of that Honda...might want to address that before Johnny law takes notice.

[TitanTn]

Hey Rob, looks like you got some stuff on the license plate of that Honda...might want to address that before Johnny law takes notice.

No worries Ben. Johnny Law can't keep up with my Honda!

[sybrmike]

No doubt - that Teak wing is bound to generate some serious downforce for the turns. Is a matching Teak air dam in the works? Looks great - hope it holds up for you...

[Okie Boarder]

Good work.

[TitanTn]

I got the boat out of its winter hibernation cave this past weekend and put it on a friend's lift so I can rehab the trailer. Here are some pics of the move process and look for some pics of the trailer soon.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/side_graphics.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/side_graphics2.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/on_lift.jpg

[Salty87]

slumming in that boat house, huh? lol nice setup.

your supra graphics turned out sweet. but, am i seeing things?...no stripe on the port side?

[TitanTn]

slumming in that boat house, huh? lol nice setup.

your supra graphics turned out sweet. but, am i seeing things?...no stripe on the port side?

Well, nothing got past the ole Salt!

Yeah, it's not much of a slum. I think she really likes her new berth.

Thanks for the kudos on the graphics, but you caught me, I haven't finished the port side yet. I have the wave, but no SUPRA or stripe. There was just not enough room in the basement to do it right, so I was waiting to get it out for the summer. But this weekend I had to get it to the lift and didn't have time to finish it. It'll happen when I get it back on the trailer.

[jasun]

Where did you get your graphics at? Me likes....

[wspeedin]

The graphics looks AWESOME!!!! Very nicely done Rob!

[TitanTn]

Where did you get your graphics at? Me likes....

I have a file for the wave, and Supraaddict made the Supra font graphic. I purchased them from an online vinyl graphics shop along with the pin stripe.


The graphics looks AWESOME!!!! Very nicely done Rob!

Thanks Will. I'm hoping you can come down for the Supra Reunion this summer and see her in person!

[wspeedin]

Lol, yeah Rob, me too. I would like to get this baot running this year for many reasons!! Im close to getting her running. Just a few troubleshooting things to do.

[Supra_Comp]

Looks great Titan, that red really pops! Everytime I see mine in the shop I think....it used to be red.

[TitanTn]

Working on the trailer now. These photos aren't great, but you get a little idea of the condition of the trailer. It's not too bad overall, but there are some rust spots where they originally had moisture-holding carpet.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/rusty_fender.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/rusty_front.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/rusty_back.jpg

[Jetlink]

Hey Rob, my trailer has diamond plating in those areas, not on top of the fender because mine is a single axle but that might be something to look at for your issue we discussed.

[TitanTn]

Hey Rob, my trailer has diamond plating in those areas, not on top of the fender because mine is a single axle but that might be something to look at for your issue we discussed.

Yeah, I'm thinking about that, but I'm trying not to put $1,000 (mythical, made-up number) into this trailer rebuild. Diamond plating isn't cheap and it's not easy to cut with any tools that I currently own, so I'd have to pay someone to cut it all to size. Plus, my trailer/boat doesn't have any chrome and very little stainless anywhere. I'm also thinking about just welding some plate steel over the fenders and steps, and then putting some of that rubber/foam mat stuff that you can get in any color. Thoughts? Suggestions?

[wotan2525]

I'd just buy new fenders. They are cheap and easy to paint and aluminum fenders will hold up a lot better.

I've got grip-tape on the tops of mine. Cheap, serves its purpose and will last a lot longer than hydroturf.

[haugy]

I'd just grind the surface rust off of everything. If it has a rust hole, it needs to be cut, patched, and repaired.

With those, I'd price out fenders. Everything else is surface rust and can be ground and painted.

HIJACK:

And damn your boat is looking great!!!!
If you get some time, please PM me all the information regarding your stripe, logo, and wave. Graphics files, who you used, etc, etc.

That is exactly what I need on my boat.

[jasun]

And damn your boat is looking great!!!!
If you get some time, please PM me all the information regarding your stripe, logo, and wave. Graphics files, who you used, etc, etc.

That is exactly what I need on my boat.

Im going to steal it too!

[sybrmike]

The stripes/graphics look fantastic. Got me second guessing staying nekked.

Aluminium diamond plate is cheap and easy to work with. Doesn't hold up like stainless but doesn't cost like stainless either. The old fenders on my VIP trailer were rusted, bent, and folded - not to mention an oddball size. Aluminum was the only thing I could find stock and still make fit (plus cheaper than steel). Just an option to consider...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lSyFFNZ73BY/UXrqq5la5CI/AAAAAAAAACg/Xn0mangcLmk/w760-h428-p-o/trial+fit+2.jpg

[inair]

I really like what you've done with that sybermike. Are those of the shelf parts or did you have them made?

[sybrmike]

Fenders were stock but had to tweak them just a tad to fit. Also had to fab a support out of tubing for the middle - aluminum was just too flimsy to use as a step between the tires. Step pads and winch guard cut out of sheet stock from Lowes with a fine tooth blade in radial arm saw then angle grinder to smooth the edges.

[TitanTn]

That's a great thought Mike. Thanks. I'm going to look into sourcing some aluminum diamond plating.

I ran into a great deal this week. I had been planning on sandblasting my trailer with my little sandblaster. I wasn't looking forward to 8 hours of sand and filth getting in every body crevice, but then I ran into a guy that is just starting an "eco friendly" mobile blasting service. He uses finely chopped glass and it's mixed with water. The end result is an extremely smooth blasting, and very little dust/flying debris. So it really made very little mess, and he gave me a great deal because this was his first job. I also got the trailer primed yesterday so I'm making progress.

[haugy]

Where are the pics man?

[Jetlink]

Where are the pics man?

Yeah!!! Pics or it didn't happen!

[TitanTn]

Whew! Rough crowd! I really didn't take many pics because I was running pretty hard between finishing the trailer and the barn on the same day. This will at least give you an idea of what it looked like after the glass-blasting, and then after the primer.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/sandblast.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/primered.jpg

[sybrmike]

Looks like great progress on the trailer. You'll have to update your sig pic once the graphics are on both sides:)

[haugy]

Whew! Rough crowd!

Motivation through brutality. :D I sure as hell wish I had a hookup for media blasting. It took me an entire day, from 6 am till about 9pm of grinding on my trailer to get all the old paint and rust off. I had black snot for days.

Have you decided what paint to use? I've been real pleased with Implement paint (like they use on tractors). Hard as nails and very scratch resistant.

[TitanTn]

Motivation through brutality. :D I sure as hell wish I had a hookup for media blasting. It took me an entire day, from 6 am till about 9pm of grinding on my trailer to get all the old paint and rust off. I had black snot for days.

Have you decided what paint to use? I've been real pleased with Implement paint (like they use on tractors). Hard as nails and very scratch resistant.

Yeah, I appreciate the motivation. I did think a lot about your trailer project as I've been working on this one. "Haugy did this in one weekend... keep pushing..." I did gain a lot by going the blasting route. But I do have a little more trailer repair to dig into before I can paint. I'm hoping to do the welding this week which include some mounts for guide poles. I made some progress this weekend in re-carpeting my bunks.

I do plan on using implement paint. I've just got to find a color I like. So far everything is closer to fire engine red than maroon/burgandy like my boat.

[TitanTn]

I'm at my wits end. I cannot find a red paint for the trailer. It's either too fire engine red, some version of mauve, or deep purple. Yuck. The red on my boat is actually some kind of maroon or burgundy, but I can't get anyone to match the color. I actually have a color mixed up now that is decent, but it's still obviously different (a little more red in it).

So, what was this trailer originally? It's been a faded red ever since I've owned it. Was it just straight red to begin with? How picky should I get with mixing a red?

I'm about at the point where I'm considering just painting it black. That might actually work with my wheel and carpet color (gray), but I'm not sure about the white boat with a red top. Any thoughts? Suggestions?

Here is a recent pic.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/side_graphics.jpg

[haugy]

They were a true Burgandy, also known as wine. There are no burgandy paints? What type of paint are you looking for? And where have you gone to look?


How are you planning to apply it? HVLP? Rollon?

[TitanTn]

They were a true Burgandy, also known as wine. There are no burgandy paints? What type of paint are you looking for? And where have you gone to look?


How are you planning to apply it? HVLP? Rollon?

There are burgundy paints, but they're not the same. Too much purple. I've looked at several paint stores as I was trying to avoid the cost of automotive paint. Hardened, oil-based enamel should be great for this application. I'm using a HVLP gun.

[2500HD]

Personally i think you can't go wrong with black. Have you considered a black top as well to tie it together?

[wotan2525]

Sherwin Williams store should be able to do a custom match in any kind of paint that you want.

[TitanTn]

Personally i think you can't go wrong with black. Have you considered a black top as well to tie it together?

Paint the boat? No, I'm just going to have to figure out the trailer color.


I'm glad you are doing all the leg work. My trailer looks very similar in color so when I'm ready to do mine, I'll call ya.

White paint would look better than black IMO and doesn't show dirt like black. Go same color as side of boat then accent the trailer with the same vinyl colors you just put back on for the wave and font. If you replaced fenders with those stainless units, I think that would pop and be hot with the white if you just can't find the color red you like. My $0.02

Yeah, if I get this figured out I'm going to patent the formula. Jetlink is helping me by working through a contact to see if he can mix up something close. I like the idea of the off-white, and I hadn't considered that before. I'm actually putting diamond plate on the fenders and steps, so that's similar to the stainless you mentioned. I think that'd look sharp, and the off-white should be an easier match. If I can't figure out this red, I'll seriously consider that.


Sherwin Williams store should be able to do a custom match in any kind of paint that you want.

I actually went to Sherwin Williams yesterday. The vinyl piece I brought for a color match was too small to scan (and it was the only thing I have), but after searching for a while we found a matching color chip. The issue is they can mix latex colors spot on, but when mixing enamel, the different color base throws off the final color. Maybe if I had an uber-experienced mixer, they could figure it out, but after several different stores, matching attempts, re-mixes, guesses, etc, it's not looking good.

[2500HD]

Paint the boat? No, I'm just going to have to figure out the trailer color.
DO NOT PAINT THE BOAT. I think you misunderstood me. I was talking about a black bimini top.

[TitanTn]

DO NOT PAINT THE BOAT. I think you misunderstood me. I was talking about a black bimini top.

Yep. I misunderstood. When I said "red top" I meant that the top cap of the boat was red. My bimini also happens to be red.

[Salty87]

if you had a black tower then black would prob look good. not sure about white...search 'anniversary' and the most recent 10th anniversary link has pics of white trailer. hard to imagine your boat on it to see how it would look.

who is the trailer manu? can they help find the right burgundy?

[Jetlink]

Yeah, if I get this figured out I'm going to patent the formula. Jetlink is helping me by working through a contact to see if he can mix up something close.

It's all set and shipped, you should have it before lunch tomorrow! Let me know how it turns out!

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/03/ygajy8uz.jpg

[TitanTn]

Thanks so much Ben. I told some friends tonight that I'm having my trailer paint shipped in from Chicago. They laugh. I don't. And I say "I'm serious. It's being overnighted as we speak..."

[Jetlink]

What if it's the wrong color? Then what?

In the highly unlikely event that it does not work for Rob, I am sure you can ask nicely and he might give it to you...:lol:

[haugy]

So what color is it?

I agree, white would be the best choice if you can't get a color matched burgandy.

[Jetlink]

So what color is it?

I agree, white would be the best choice if you can't get a color matched burgandy.

The paint should be delivered before noon to TitanTN... FedEx says it should be there by 10:30AM actually but I am betting closer to noon. I'll let Titan show you all what the color is and how it turns out. I can't wait to see it myself though and this should be exciting!

[TitanTn]

Well, with a few weather delays and a trip to the local FedEx warehouse, I finally got the paint. All I can say is that Jetlink and his buddy nailed the mix. If it doesn't look good, it's my fault for picking the wrong paint chip. My boat is at the lake, so I can't compare in person, but I think this is going to be it. I hope it is anyway, since I've painted the trailer!

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/trailer1.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/trailer2.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/trailer3.jpg

Obviously the pics aren't showing the real-life color, but this gives you an idea. Thanks again Ben. I was moments away from throwing in the towel. Come to the Supra Reunion this summer in Tennessee and you too can make friends like this.

[Jetlink]

That does look sharp!!! Hopefully it matches well and I get to see it in person this summer. I might see if my paint wizard wants to come see his work as well!

[inair]

Hey that looks Awesome! Can't wait to see it at the reunion.

[TitanTn]

More pics. Still have to secure the bunks while raising the front of them about 1/2 inch, install the LED lights, and the diamond plating.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/trailer4.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/trailer5.jpg

[inair]

Wow! That looks terrific. Great example of a first class job.

[Jetlink]

Hey Titan, how did your local Sherwin Williams guys like that color combo and name?

[TitanTn]

Take a break and slow down. You're making the rest of us look lazy. Well, at least me.

Great color combo. I say you name the color Jetlink Red. I know Bad Ass Trailer Red is nice and all, but Jetlink Red has a ring to it.

Looks great!! Don't forget the Supra decals.

Yeah, I'm hitting it pretty hard. I want to get my boat off my friend's lift so he can use it for his boat. That's a good idea on the color name, but I like his buddy's name of it too. So maybe combining them like: Jetlink's Bad Ass Trailer Red. Hey, but now I want some credit... I mean, I picked the color! Surely this isn't too long: Jetlink and TitanTn's Bad Ass Trailer Red. Has a nice ring to it.


Hey Titan, how did your local Sherwin Williams guys like that color combo and name?

My local guy was as personable as the lame colors they were mixing. He said nothing about the name, so I made a joke about not being able to pull up the color in the computer. Nothing. I made a comment on working for weeks on getting the right shade of red. Uh-huh. So FINALLY he made a comment as I was paying. "You had this originally mixed in Illinois?" Finally some recognition that this is not a normal transaction. "Yep, it was the closest place that knew how to mix enamel."

[Jetlink]

Wow! Sounds like Mr. Personality there! Oh well, any idea when the boat will be coming off the lift?

[haugy]

That looks awesome man!!! Great job on the color Jetlink!

That looks great. I can't wait to see it with the boat on it. That's going to look so sexy.

[sybrmike]

Trailer looks great! Even if it's not an exact match, I'm sure the expanse of white between the cap and trailer will fool the eye. Can't wait to see them reunited.

[TitanTn]

So I went and got the boat today. I busted this whole weekend and basically got the trailer back together. I still need to do pin-striping and the Supra logo, but that'll just need to come later. I'm real pleased with how everything turned out.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/new_trailer.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/new_trailer2.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/new_trailer3.jpg

[Jetlink]

Pardon my language but, hot damn dude!!! That does look super sharp!

[Sirgonz]

Great work... Looking like a brand new trailer....

Just read through the entire post... WOW what a lot of work and what a cool payoff at the end.... you bring new meaning the term sweat equity!

My respect and JOB well done!

[Salty87]

looks fantastic!

how hard is the pinstripe on the hull? that's a long run to keep 'straight'.

[TitanTn]

Thanks guys. I'm really proud of it and the fact that I didn't break the bank to get it done. Anyone can throw money at a problem and fix it, but I like to torture myself with my own cheap labor.



looks fantastic!

how hard is the pinstripe on the hull? that's a long run to keep 'straight'.

It's not too bad if you use a reference line. I used some painters masking tape and laid it down directly below where I wanted the pinstripe. It's easier to keep the thicker tape straight. You then come back and lay down the pinstripe along the edge of the masking tape. Although I was nervous about getting the line straight, I think it turned out pretty good.

[AJWEINS]

Thanks for the inspiration! The boat looks fantastic!

[TitanTn]

Well, it time for more restoration. I'm in the middle of a complete engine rebuild.

I had a sticky lifter this past summer and since I've never really done anything to the engine, I decided to just do a freshen up on the whole engine. Bearings, seals, gaskets, lifters and a cam. Of course I was going to have a machine shop go through the heads.

It's turned out to be providential that I tore the engine down as far as I did. The boat had new exhaust manifolds on it when I purchased it. And now I think the old manifolds failed and let water back in the engine. I had two pistons that were disintegrating from water damage. That in turn scored the cylinder walls. I also had some cracked valve seats.

So the block is getting a .30 over bore, crank is being turned, heads completely gone through, etc. I've got the parts coming in next week and the machine shop will press in the cam seals and the pistons onto the connecting rods. I'll then bring everything home and start the assembly process.

It's going to be a lot of expense and time, but in the end I'm looking forward to a basically new engine and seeing what the performance is. Does anyone know what type of horsepower I should see from the slightly larger displacement? I'm not thinking it'll be much, but since I likely wasn't getting full power before, I think I'll definitely feel a difference.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/engine_rebuild.jpg

[cadunkle]

Performance increase from a few more cubic inches will be negligible. In stock form you're looking at .73 HP/cubic inch so at .030" over you're looking at maybe +4 HP at most. You won't feel the difference.

Are you considering any performance upgrades while it's apart? Head porting? Intake? Cam? Carb? I know you said you have new manifolds so probably no plans to upgrade those. If staying near stock HP levels I don't think you'd get much HP per dollar on better manifolds or headers unless you were needing to replace them anyway.

[TitanTn]

Thanks, I kinda figured that was the case. I'm not really planning any performance changes. Quite frankly, I don't think my engine was performing up to even stock levels and it was fine. I don't need any more performance - I'm not racing anyone, and most of the time I'm trying to be gentle on the throttle so I'm easier on fuel.

So I'm not doing anything with the cam or carb. I might be getting a different intake - we'll see.

[cadunkle]

If the goal is a good performing engine that's easy on fuel it may be worth keeping in mind many things that improve performance or HP per cubic inch will also increase efficiency or reduce BSFC. I'm not sure what factory compression ratio is on these, but higher compression gives greater efficiency. Volumetric efficiency can be improved with head porting, intake, carb, exhaust. Not sure the specs on the original cams but something with more lift and more aggressive lobe profiles while maintaining a wide LSA can improve efficiency as well. Polishing chambers can help to prevent detonation and helps to run the most ideal timing curve.

What pistons are you using? What is the compression ratio? Have you picked a cam yet? What octane fuel are you planning to run?

I enjoy engine builds and have done a few torque and efficiency builds. I like shooting for best fuel economy in builds like this. Even for a low cost stockish rebuild there's a lot that can be done for minimal cost to improve on both power and economy.

[TitanTn]

Thanks for that info. I think the factory compression ratio for this engine is 8.0:1.

I agree that porting, intake, etc can help with efficiency as much as power. It just all takes money, and I just don't have the discretionary funds to put into something that I use on a very limited basis. This build is already costing me way more than I was hoping for. My machine work is already in the $700 range and the rebuild kit is $550. I know this is still fairly cheap for a 7.4 rebuild, but regardless of good intentions it all takes cash.

Here is the rebuild kit I purchased: http://www.mabbcomotors.com/catalog/Marine/Marine-Engine-Rebuild-Kits/Chevrolet/MARINE_GM_454_7.4_Master_Engine_Rebuild_Kit_1980-1990/840

[michael hunter]

Rob what are they using for the ZDDP additive?

[TitanTn]

Rob what are they using for the ZDDP additive?

Great question, and based on our earlier oil conversations I'm specifically using a ZDDP oil from now on. I'm not sure if you're referencing what assembly lube I'll use during the build, or if you're asking if I'll use an additive or oil with ZDDP. My plan is to make sure I always use oil with the ZDDP included. Do I need to do something more during the build?

[cadunkle]

Valvoline VR1 and comp cams breakin lube for cam breakin is what I use, though I'd happily sub whatever cam breakin lube is conveniently available as VR1 alone should be good. The additive is just belt and suspenders, cheap insurance. Whether you need to be concerned about having sufficient zinc and phosphorus content after cam breakin depends on what cam and springs you are using.

[Supra_Comp]

As said above, a .030 over bore will not product any considerable gains unless matched with different heads/cam but that can get pricey.

Like cadunkle mentioned, if you are looking for any small gains I would look at a different intake/carb setup. Obviously the big goal is low end torque, and going with a longer runner manifold can help in that department.

For example, on my 302 SBF in my 1987 Mustang (stock heads/block) I switched from the stock intake to a GT40 style that has long tube runners (granted, it is EFI) but I ended up with 24 ft.lb gains and peak torque at 700 rpm less than stock.

My opinion on changing cams on a stock bottom end and stock heads is that it will do nothing but kill your low end torque. You may improve efficiency and peak HP but in this world you are trying to get up and go.

[cadunkle]

My opinion on changing cams on a stock bottom end and stock heads is that it will do nothing but kill your low end torque. You may improve efficiency and peak HP but in this world you are trying to get up and go.

I don't know the specs on the cam PCM used in these, but I'm certain with only 330 HP there is a lot of improvement to be had. I'd imagine the PCM cam is low lift and slow ramp rates. Changing cams for more power and efficiency does not mean an engine that idles rough at 1200 RPM and pulls to 7500 RPM unless that's what you want. Cam technology and lobe profiles have come a long way since the 80s. In any rebuild cam lifters and springs are typically replaced given how cheap these parts are. With a modern cam there can be torque improvements across the board.

[Supra_Comp]

I don't know the specs on the cam PCM used in these, but I'm certain with only 330 HP there is a lot of improvement to be had. I'd imagine the PCM cam is low lift and slow ramp rates. Changing cams for more power and efficiency does not mean an engine that idles rough at 1200 RPM and pulls to 7500 RPM unless that's what you want. Cam technology and lobe profiles have come a long way since the 80s. In any rebuild cam lifters and springs are typically replaced given how cheap these parts are. With a modern cam there can be torque improvements across the board.

Do the 351's have a better cam than stock? I always thought they had higher lift/duration than a stock Ford 351.

[cadunkle]

It's likely a different cam than Ford put in 351 truck engines in the 80s as trucks had emissions requirements whereas boats didn't. So it's quite possible the cam is a bit different and may have made a bit more power. Hard to tell since boat HP was rated at the crank and car/truck HP at the rear wheels after driveline and accessory losses.

I'd be surprised if the PCM 351 cam was at all aggressive with lift or ramp rates and I'm with a 4400 RPM max it's not going to have a lot of duration or overlap. What we'd want for a mild performance build ina towboat is more lift and faster ramp rates along with slightly more duration and overlap. Nothing excessive since we want a broad torque curve for wake sports. Slalom and barefooting you can build for higher RPM.

Also I doubt that PCM cam in either 351 or 454 is split duration. Not sure on BBC but all Ford engines benefit from longer exhaust duration due to restrictive exhaust ports as cast. BBC has pretty decent exhaust ports relative to Fords but I'm sure more exhaust duration would help BBC as well.

[TitanTn]

I've made a little progress finally.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/lifters.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/painted_engine2.jpg

[TitanTn]

Got it back in today. Based on last time, I was expecting one hour to drop in, and one hour to connect and get running. Well, the best laid plans... It took about 6 hours in all. But she's alive! Still a lot of little things to button up, but I'm glad she's running.

Anyone have advice on the break-in? I was told to get it running and immediately get the rpms over 1,500 and don't run over 2,200, but fluctuate between those numbers for about 15 minutes. This is to break in the cam. For breaking in the rings I'll need to go to the lake and run between 1,500 and 3,000 for 10 hours. Anyone have a different procedure?


http://youtu.be/ljCoci2SuHc

[TitanTn]

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/setting_engine.jpg

[cadunkle]

How long did you have it running? Hopefully not more than a few seconds as it doesn't take long to wipe a new cam.

Before starting ensure you have smothered and cam lobes and lifter bases with moly assembly lube. Also ensure you are using a good oil of appropriate viscosity for your build with at least 1200 ppm of zinc and phosphorus. I typically use Valvoline VR1 for cam breakin, and also use Comp Cams breakin additive. Prime the oil pump with a drill or speed wrench until you have pressure. Set your timing in the ballpark, put #1 on compression stroke with timing marks where you intend to set your base timing and lock in the distributor with the rotor pointed at #1 and preferably if you can tell also set at the point at which your trigger fires the coil. You want to be sure the engine will fire quickly, cranking will wipe the cam and removes your assembly lube

Immediately bring RPM to 2000-2500 RPM and keep in this range for minimum of 20 minutes, though I typically do 25 mins. I set the idle stop to be in that range before starting and adjust from there so "idle" is at 2000 RPM. Throughout the breakin period I slowly vary RPM in that range using idle stop screw adjustments. At the end of the breakin period set idle stop to 2000 RPM and do a long slow sweep to 2500, back down to 2000, then to 3000 and down, then to 3500 and down, then bring it to normal idle RPM. Set timing, adjust carb mixture, get idle RPM where the engine likes it. Shut down and change oil using high zinc and phosphorus oil such as Valvoline VR1 for first oil change. Monitor dipstick for metal particles during first oil change and check oil for metal at next oil change when draining.

Once the engine starts do not let it idle for any reason until you've run at least 20 minutes. Do not shut it off unless absolutely necessary, such as oil leak under pressure, severe coolant leak, overheating, or any circumstance in which you foresee you cannot run for the full cam breakin period. You should be closely monitoring oil pressure and coolant temp the whole time. Again, do not let the engine idle or you are likely to wipe the cam.

[TitanTn]

Thanks Cadunkle, that's a great run down and very similar to what I did yesterday. I had lots of assembly lube on the cam, and I used the correct viscosity of oil and added Valvoline's ZDDP additive to make sure I had enough in the oil. I had the oil pump primed and distributor timed with number one at TDC.

Once started I brought it up to 2,000 rpms and varied between 1,800 and 2,500 for 20 minutes. I then fine tuned the timing and carb settings. I had great oil pressure and temp setting the whole time.

To my understanding, this breaks in the cam. But I've heard that the ring break-in can take 10-20 hours. In reading about this topic, I've found that for the next 10 hours I should: keep above idle as much as possible, change rpms often, and don't go anywhere near full throttle. Would you agree with that?

So I should change the oil before I go to the lake and do the longer break-in period, but after this oil change do I need to do another one (after the second break-in period) before declaring it good for the summer?

[cadunkle]

Awesome, sounds like your cam is broken in just fine. If you haven't changed the oil yet after cam break in then do that before taking it out on the water. Your break in oil and filter are full of metal from the cam and lifters wearing together along with assembly lube and any other junk you don't want in the oil. You want clean fresh oil for actually running it under load.

Rings can take a little while to seat. Two schools of thought on this. One is take it easy and vary RPM so they gently wear in to the bores. The other is run it hard, several hard pulls working up to WOT and back off letting engine braking keep revs up a bit while slowing down (that bit not as practical in a boat, but some props do have a lot of bite), at first stopping at lower RPM then working up to higher RPM. The theory is more aggressive acceleration and deceleration yields higher cylinder pressures which helps the rings wear together to the bores more quickly.

I used to be of the former crowd, generally going pretty easy but varying RPM and load as much as possible. Now I'm slightly more favoring the latter method as I believe it seats the rings more quickly. I've driven engines both ways during the break in period but don't think it makes a big difference. Parts wear together fairly quickly either way and I've never had a problem with ring seal using either method. Pick your poison, I won't advise you one way or the other aside from avoid extended idling for the first 20 hours or so. Idling, particularly before the rings are fully worn in and seated, can build up carbon and blow by between the rings and lands. Change the oil immediately after cam break in and again after 20-25 hours. After that go to your normal oil change interval.

[TitanTn]

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for that explanation. I've heard of both schools of thought as well, and that's why it was confusing me. I'm going to continue reading on both methods, but just for argument sake, let's say I go with the hard pulls. How long does this need to go on? 10 pulls? 5 hours? I totally get the "don't let it idle" thing and will be avoiding that regardless of the method.

Awesome advice. This thread should be stickied just for that one post.

[Supra_Comp]

^ +1.

I have a question about the no idling. I have to do the 20 hour break in on my new motor (cam was done by marina). When I plop my boat in the harbour we have to go through a no wake zone (idle) to get to the lake, it's about a 2 minute stretch. Will that be an issue?

Sorry Titan, not trying to hi jack.

[cadunkle]

No worries with a short no wake zone like that. When I say extended idling I mean more like 15+ minutes at a time. So long as the cam is already broken in you're fine. Letting it idle for a few minutes at the dock or through a no wake after dropping it in is good to get some temperature in the block and oil before putting a load on it when getting on plane. The first 20 hours or so on an engine are not nearly as critical as the first 20 minutes of cam break in.

[TitanTn]

Onto other projects. I replaced the steering cable and helm this past weekend. The most aggravating part was fit the bezel under the steering wheel. I had to make several fabrications to make it all work. But I think the end result looks great and it seems to function real well.

Just a couple more weekends and I'll be doing the engine break-in on the lake.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/steering_wheel.jpg

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/helm.jpg

[TitanTn]

Break in went well. Everything worked great and all gauges are spot on. The only issue was the engine had a hard time turning over when starting when warm. At first I thought the battery wasn't charged or I had some wiring issue. But after checking everything out I determined that the timing was off. It was retarded by a degree or two. I had set the timing by feel initially because I didn't have a timing light and because I didn't want it to sit at idle too long until it was broke in. The timing is now set at 9 degrees BTDC and the engine turns over as it should.

Once we get some rain free weekends it'll be more lake tests to make sure everything is as it should be. And oh yeah, the steering was like butta.

[haugy]

Awesome. Glad to see you got it all in and running in time. I will probably do a refresh on my engine next winter when I pull it out.

[TitanTn]

False alarm. It's not doing right. Went for another lake test today and was stuck on the lake for about an hour. It starts and runs well from the beginning. After 10 minutes of running and I shut it off and it started again easily. I ran for another 15 minutes and shut it off again. Suddenly the problem of not being able to get the engine to turn over was back. It turns the engine over for half a revolution or so and then stops. Putting both batteries to it doesn't make a difference. The starter seems very hot to the touch. I got going again by pouring cold lake water over the starter housing and cooling it down. But once it was running again it was hard to keep idling. I made it back to the dock fine (anything above 1,200 rpms runs great). But idling around the dock was very difficult and it kept cutting out. It would turn over fine and restart. Huh?

Thoughts? And for the record, the starter is 10 months old - a marine starter from DB Electrical.

[ckracing]

So many things...
Vapor lock? Check your timing.
Firing order? Check your distributor and plug wires.

[92SupraComp]

Is it the big old plunger style or the newer mini high torque starter? I have had bad luck with the old starters. I ditched them in 3 boats and have the mini high torques, never had a problem since. They draw less amps than the old ones and turn the motors over faster... Make sure you use a conducting paste such as never sieve against the face of the starter and the the bell housing and use never seize on the boats, this really helps move the electrons :P

[TitanTn]

Is it the big old plunger style or the newer mini high torque starter? I have had bad luck with the old starters. I ditched them in 3 boats and have the mini high torques, never had a problem since. They draw less amps than the old ones and turn the motors over faster... Make sure you use a conducting paste such as never sieve against the face of the starter and the the bell housing and use never seize on the boats, this really helps move the electrons :P

It's the older, plunger style. I didn't really follow that sentence about conducting paste...

[cadunkle]

Hmm, hope it's not the starter as I also have a DB Electric starter in mine. Check and clean all battery cable connections, if cables are ratty it may be time to replace them. Check voltage at batteries vs at starter. First step is making sure the starter is getting all the power it wants. Low voltage will result in pulling more amps, heating up the starter and wires more, etc... and of course slow cranking.

Could be vapor lock as someone else mentioned. Check if fuel is dripping from carb boosters at idle or after shutdown when hot. This will cause hard starting and can cause slow cranking. If dripping it could be float level too high, adjust it down a hair if so... Leaky needle and seats, if so clean or replace if required... Or could be heat soak heating or boiling the fuel. I had this problem, resulting is hard starts and sometimes slow cranking when hot. Fix was a phenolic spacer between carb and intake. Helped prevent heat soak of the carb.

Also check timing, I have mine at 10* and that's generally where I set my stock(ish) engines for initial timing. More and you can have hard starting as the engine tries to kick back against the starter particularly if cranking is slow. Generally not an issue until around 14* though. If your timing is set in the 6*-10* range it should start easy. Just make sure it's still where you set it and your mechanical advance isn't sticking. If the advance is rusty or not lubed it can hang and not return to base timing, causing hard starts and slow cranking.

[TitanTn]

Thanks guys. I'm fairly sure that the hot starter is causing the issue, I just don't know why the starter is getting hot. It's either the starter's fault or how's it's being wired together.

I have basically brand new cables from the batteries to the engine. Less than a year old. No fuel dripping/spilling issues at all and I've had vapor lock before and it just wouldn't start - never any not "turn over" situations. It doesn't behave like a vapor lock to me.

I've got the timing set at 9 degrees per factory specs. The advance seems to be working as it should, and it comes back down (it's sticking).

So how should this thing be wired? I have it setup as it's been since I've owned it, but that doesn't mean it's right. I just replaced the 3 wire alternator with a one wire - 105 amp alternator. This hotter alternator might be creating some issues. So my battery cable comes back to the solenoid on the starter and the main wire bundle from the breaker attaches to the same post. There is a small wire that attaches to the ignition post on the solenoid. That's it. I have a remote solenoid next to the breaker that isn't doing anything. Someone has by-passed it at some point. And while the distributor is electronic (no points), the ballast resistor is still wired in. What is the suggested setup based on these facts?

[wotan2525]

Pretty sure that you don't need the ballast resistor with the electronic dizzy, but you'll want to double-check that based on what dizzy you are using.

I'd check the starter wiring to make sure there isn't a short to ground somewhere. A continuity tester should make this pretty easy. Sounds like there might be some power flowing through a shorted out starter. Easy part is determining if that is the problem -- hard part is figuring out where you've got a cable shorted.

I don't think they make a new-style high-torque starter for the 454. I've not been able to find one for my bell-housing, anyway -- and I suspect yours is the same. Generally I've had good luck with DB starters but it is possible that they can go bad. I did have a Ford starter in my truck that they replaced 3 times before I gave up and just threw it in the trash. But I've had 2 marine starters from them in 10 years (seems like a good run.)

[ssa]

Mine has the electronic ignition and is also wired through a ballast resistor. I looked at installing a MSD ignition box on it and the wiring diagrams indicated that some of Mallory's ignitions do wire with a resistor for some reason. So it probably is the way it should be on the ignition.

[TitanTn]

I'm pretty sure that the electronic distributors don't need the ballast resistor. It's exclusively for protecting a points based system.

I'm convinced at this point that it's either a faulty starter or something to do with how it's wired. Again, I haven't changed the wiring setup since I purchased it. If it ain't broke...

So one theory I have is that the new 105 amp alternator is heating up the starter with the wiring setup the way it is. Basically I have a solenoid on the starter and a remote one next to the main circuit breaker. The one next to the circuit breaker wasn't being used at all. Everything was connected at the starter which meant that the alternator was sending the charge through the solenoid on the starter. I've rewired it like the attached diagram, which includes bypassing the resistor. This may not be the problem, but I think this is a more accurate setup and isolates the starter from the alternator. So if this isn't it, I'm thinking something is wrong with the starter.

13963

[ssa]

If it's not a Mallory Unilite distributor disregard this but if it is read the statement on the attached diagram. I would agree that your alternator is causing the problem. It sounds as though that is all you have changed. If everything was working correctly before the alternator change to a single wire then it sounds like that's what's created the issue. I just want to point out the warning from Mallory on the ballast resistor so that you don't possibly cause yourself another problem trying to fix another. Either way good luck with it. 13964

[92SupraComp]

the wiring looks standard...

Use NEVER SEIZE on the starter bolts and the face of the starter that sits against the bell housing. This is the starters ground. Many times a slow starter is caused by a bad positive feed cable or poor grounding to the engine. Also make sure the engine is well grounded. Make sure all connections are clean!

When we bought our CC it came with a HUGE RV/Marine Deep Cycle/Starting Battery. The guy thought the old battery was no good but the starter was actually just crap. You only had 3 attempts to get it cold started (super slow idle, and carb needed to be rebuilt) and then the starter had no strength. When out cruising, if you stop the motor. You have ONE attempt to start hot and then you had wait half an hour. The starter would get very hot each time. So we stole the mini high torque starter from the Supra and never had a problem since. The old starter would drop the voltage gauge almost to its resting point, the mini high torque, barely reached 10 volts :D

For our Supra and relatives boat whose starter literally blew up inside somehow, we bought 2 $60 Marine starters on ebay. They are aluminum bodies instead of steel but for the past 2 years crank just as fast the $200 steel starters...

[cadunkle]

Electronic pickup distributors almost always take full 12v, no ballast to the pickup or any ignition box. You may still need a ballast resistor, depends on what your coil requires in your application.

With 105A alt wired through that 50A breaker you will trip the breaker if you work the alternator hard from load or discharged batteries. Also be sure all wiring between alternator and battery is at least 4 gauge. 2 gauge is better for the long run to the batteries. Check voltage drop from batteries to starter both running and not, if you haven't already.

[92SupraComp]

Only 4 gauge? CC used 2 gauge and Supra put in #00 (2/0) from the battery to the back of the motor and then #2 gauge to a Mini High torque starter which draws less amps than the old style. Now he has a a 454! That is a much bigger starter! I would use #0 from the battery to the motor and at least #2 from the solenoid to the starter.... 4 gauge is too small for a BBC...