Rules about thirds

[stinky_1]

Hi Guys,

I am curious to know what the laws and rules are on thirds. Specifically how old they have to be, and if there are cases where they are not needed?

I was under the impression in some provinces and states that if you have a convex mirror you do not need a 3rd. Is this the case or have I been miss informed. I couldn't seem to find really any "official" looking thing for my province of alberta that states anything at all.

We have been out many many times with only 2 of us, and never had the "police" say a word.

[mapleleaf]

I've been "warned" in MI, they don't like 2 on my lake....Notsure about Ontario....

[michael hunter]

I know Kentucky and Georgia only require a mirror to pull a skier/rider. Its kinda nice on those days when the third doesn't show. I would not pull without a spotter unless I know the riders abilities.

[stinky_1]

I am usually out early in the season up here. Last year we were on the lake the first week in may. The ice had melted off a couple days earlier. So we were the only ones on the water.

In the dead of summer we usually have enough people on the boat anyway. I am mostly worried about our early morning sessions when the sun just gets up, and our late night sessions where we are heading back in the dark. I only have a few friends that are crazy about the sport as much as me to even be out there at those times. The rest of them are fine with the choppy water in mid day.

I have looked through the coast guard site looking for anything that talks about it, but have not managed to find a single thing.

[Matt Laird]

I asked the Ranger here in Oklahoma, They do not have a 3rd / observer law as long as you have a rear facing Mirror... That even includes those dinky jet ski mirrors.. No flag required either which to me seems unsafe...

[tg0824SSVGG]

Colorado law requires a 3rd and a flag ... Although there is not an "age"
requirement, the rangers seem to think they can interpret this as though there
is (and I guess, I can see the point):


No person shall operate a vessel on any waters of this state for towing any person on water skies, aquaplanes, surfboards, inner-tubes or any similar devices, unless there is in such vessel a person, in addition to the operator, in a position to observe the progress of the person being towed, and capable of relaying messages to the operator.

I guess the rangers get to decide whether they think someone is capable.
My 5 year old grand daughter is more observant and focused on working that flag and talking to the driver than most adults I know ... but she is not considered "capable", evidently.

[stinky_1]

At least you were able to find something in writing about it. I can see their point. 5 seems a bit young. I think my 5 year old could do the job. I actually trusted out two 2 year olds to tell my wife last year. They sat right beside her and would yell "daddy fall" every time I wiped out.

My 8 year old son has ran the camera in the boat for me as well, and he did a pretty good job of "spotting".

Although a judge may call into question your judgment in having a 5 year old be the spotter, the absence of an age requirement leaves it open to interpretation.

Good posts guys. Keep the information coming.

We have never used a flag either. I have not seen others using it too. Maybe some clarification on that would be good too. I guess if you can use a mirror as your 3rd, the flag is not needed?

[wotan2525]

Wisconsin requires a 3rd. Minnesota requires a mirror. I ride the river in between the two and there is a specific DNR issued set of rules governing the body of water -- it says that you need to have a 3rd. However, the police have told us that they enforce it based on which state the boat is registered in.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Wotan that is super interesting!!!

Yes it is a state-by-state law (similar to the skier-down flag that most states do not requre). I regularly ride with just two people and my mirror.

[tg0824SSVGG]

This is a related item. I found a link to a summary of trailering laws thru out the US while
looking for a similar page for flags and 3rds ..

http://www.boatus.com/trailerclub/trailering_laws.asp

[tg0824SSVGG]

This page seems to have links to each state's (sorry to you guys in Candada) regulatory department for boating rules ...

http://www.boatus.com/links/govlinks.asp

[docdrs]

In Canada you need a spotter unless you are in training for a competition to which then the rule don't apply :)


Small Vessel Towing Activities
41(1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate a small vessel while
towing any person on the water or in the air,
(a) unless there is on board a person other than the operator, who is keeping
watch on the person being towed;
(b) unless there is seating space on the small vessel to accommodate the
person being towed;
(c) if the person being towed is not wearing a personal flotation device or
lifejacket, unless the small vessel carries the personal protection equipment
that would be required under Part II if the person were on board; and
(d) during the period beginning one hour after sunset and ending at sunrise.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of a small vessel that is being operated
during formal training, in an official competition or in a skill demonstration, if the
vessel meets the safety requirements of a governing body respecting such training,
competitions or demonstrations

http://www.qp.gov.sk.ca/documents/english/Regulations/federal/c1487.pdf


enjoy

[stinky_1]

wow, that helps a lot doc. Have you got the link that this came from as well?

No word on the age requirement for that one either. So I suppose my 5 year old daughter is sufficient?

Also interesting to note, they say the guy being towed does not need a life jacket while being towed as long as he has one to wear in the boat.

[dusty2221]

My wife frowned at me when I suggested bringing home a 3rd!

:)

[docdrs]

wow, that helps a lot doc. Have you got the link that this came from as well?

No word on the age requirement for that one either. So I suppose my 5 year old daughter is sufficient?

Also interesting to note, they say the guy being towed does not need a life jacket while being towed as long as he has one to wear in the boat.

Here ya go

http://www.qp.gov.sk.ca/documents/english/Regulations/federal/c1487.pdf

[csuggs]

Only need a mirror in WV, but I've had a friend to get cited because his mirror was too small . . .
I pull without a spotter on occasion and have even pulled double without a spotter, but as someone stated - only with those that I know the abilities - namely my sons. No problems yet!

[stinky_1]

thanks for the links guys. I guess I have some reading to do now.

[jzelt]

In PA...

WATER-SKIING
(includes similar activities such as wakeboarding, towing
inner tubes, etc.)
• It is unlawful to operate a motorboat at any speed with a
person or persons sitting, riding or hanging on a swim platform
(teak surfing) or swim ladder attached to the motorboat, except
when launching, retrieving, docking or anchoring the motorboat.
• It is unlawful to operate a motorboat at any speed when
towing a person on water skis or other devices using a tow rope of
20 feet or less.
• Skiing is illegal between sunset and sunrise.
• In addition to the operator, a competent observer must be in
the boat in a position to observe the towed person.
• Tow ropes may not exceed a length of 80 feet.

There is an exception to the spotter rule that you have to be on a competition team, it has to be done Mon-Fri before 10 AM and not on a weekend or holiday. You have to fill out paperwork listing the group you are involved with and other crap.

We have a mirror and with me and the wife only many times, we know what to expect from each other and actually signal how to drive while we are riding. We don't do anything stupid (trick) and my interpretation of the rule would be for help if the person is unable to get back in the boat. Even with others onboard, we take it upon ourself to always watch the rider in the mirror instead of others to tell us they are down.

Many times, we are turning around before someone in the boat says they are down.

We ride early when warden's aren't out.

[docdrs]

In PA...

WATER-SKIING
(includes similar activities such as wakeboarding, towing
inner tubes, etc.)
• It is unlawful to operate a motorboat at any speed with a
person or persons sitting, riding or hanging on a swim platform
(teak surfing) or swim ladder attached to the motorboat, except
when launching, retrieving, docking or anchoring the motorboat.
• It is unlawful to operate a motorboat at any speed when
towing a person on water skis or other devices using a tow rope of
20 feet or less.
• Skiing is illegal between sunset and sunrise.
• In addition to the operator, a competent observer must be in
the boat in a position to observe the towed person.
• Tow ropes may not exceed a length of 80 feet.

There is an exception to the spotter rule that you have to be on a competition team, it has to be done Mon-Fri before 10 AM and not on a weekend or holiday. You have to fill out paperwork listing the group you are involved with and other crap.

We have a mirror and with me and the wife only many times, we know what to expect from each other and actually signal how to drive while we are riding. We don't do anything stupid (trick) and my interpretation of the rule would be for help if the person is unable to get back in the boat. Even with others onboard, we take it upon ourself to always watch the rider in the mirror instead of others to tell us they are down.

Many times, we are turning around before someone in the boat says they are down.

We ride early when warden's aren't out.


so is ok to surf as long as your not hanging on to the rope? or do you have the other 15 feet coiled up to maintain a minimum 20" length?

[jzelt]

Well, we don't surf too much. Just not set up for it correctly or the board.
However, we have tried to improvise...Not much worry where we boat about it not being legal or caught as they would probably ride behind us and watch.

However, that would probably be my way of trying to get around it would be to have the other 15 ft on the floor. "We just weren't using it all". I have seen someone surfing before on the lake, but no rangers were around, so no enforcement and it was a while ago, so they probably just changed the regs. I do know flying tubes are out, but have never seen those on the water there to begin with.

Since Katrina, the corp of eng. has been patrolling more weekends than they ever have in the past. Probably "use it or lose it money".

[jet]

As long as your girlfriend will go along with it..go for it!!;)

[ddb0]

I have looked through the coast guard site looking for anything that talks about it, but have not managed to find a single thing.[/QUOTE]

coast guard only inforces fedral laws you would need to check state laws for where you will be at. in california you have to have an observier even if youhave a mirror