Need driveline help, lots of questions

[cadunkle]

Boat is an '89 Saltare with 454. This is my first inboard, so I'm still learning so far as the driveline goes, so bear with me if my questions sound silly and the length of this post.

Last season when adjusting my driveshaft packing I noticed a slight wobble in the shaft. Would alignment cause the wobble or would have to be a bent shaft or worn strut bushing? I would think if alignment was off the shaft would not wobble, but rather be still but just not centered.

So now that I have the boat back form upholstery and got it dewinterized and running this weekend I pulled my shaft. Good news is no wear or ridges that I can tell. I will take this to a local machine shop I use for machine work on engine builds and have it checked for straight and runout. I don't have anything striaght that's long enough, or a good flat surface big enough to even try to eyeball it. The coupler looks straight across the surface but should I bring this in as well and have it surfaced?

Also, although the coupler was difficult to remove from the shaft, the nut came loose with almost no effort and actually had a snap ring in the thread behind it. This was presumably to keep it from backing off, but the shaft is not made with a groove for a snap ring on the coupler end... Nor does it have a hole that you would use a castle nut and cotter pin with. The nut that was on it was not a nylock or a standard metal lock nut, but just a regular nut with no locking mechanism. Is this the way they are normally installed? Should I use some sort of locking nut on it when reinstalling?

Also on the propeller end there is no provision for a cotter pin or snap ring to directly interface with the nut. The prop was installed with a brass nylock. There is a cotter pin hole at the very end of the shaft though. Should there be a cotter pin or anything else secured in this hole even though it is maybe 1/4" or more behind where the nylock sits? Is a nylock with no other method securing the nut from backing off the normal accepted way to install these? I will be using a new brass nylock when reinstalling the prop, if that is all that is required.

When removing the shaft it initially seemed tight in the strut bushings. After pulling the front of the shaft through the hole the packing attached to I noticed I could wobble the shaft a little through the strut bushings, side to side and up and down. This seems to indicate worn strut bushings. I'm thinking if my shaft is straight this could be where my wobble was coming from. My bushings are 1" ID and 1.25" OD I see skidim sells two different types of bushings, standard style and XPC visconite. Cost is almost the same, which is better and what should I get? How hard is it to pull and install these with the strut on the boat? I assume you hammer them in? Not much room to work with. Can this be done with the strut on the boat and the rudder installed?

Once I get all this sorted I will be realigning the engine. I expect this to be very similar to aligning an I/O so far as adjustment of the mounts, just we're looking for .003" or less on the coupler.

I want to order all the parts I need tomorrow morning, and drop the shat at the machine shop on the way to work. The idea is to get everything by the weekend so I can finish getting the boat ready for the water this weekend. Is there anything I'm forgetting? Anything else I should do or check while the shaft is out?

[docdrs]

Also, although the coupler was difficult to remove from the shaft, the nut came loose with almost no effort and actually had a snap ring in the thread behind it. This was presumably to keep it from backing off, but the shaft is not made with a groove for a snap ring on the coupler end... Nor does it have a hole that you would use a castle nut and cotter pin with. The nut that was on it was not a nylock or a standard metal lock nut, but just a regular nut with no locking mechanism. Is this the way they are normally installed? Should I use some sort of locking nut on it when reinstalling?

on todays couplers there is a allen screw that screws into the side of the coupler to engage the coupler nut to prevent it from coming loose


Also on the propeller end there is no provision for a cotter pin or snap ring to directly interface with the nut. The prop was installed with a brass nylock. There is a cotter pin hole at the very end of the shaft though. Should there be a cotter pin or anything else secured in this hole even though it is maybe 1/4" or more behind where the nylock sits? Is a nylock with no other method securing the nut from backing off the normal accepted way to install these? I will be using a new brass nylock when reinstalling the prop, if that is all that is required.

Yes put a cotter pin in that hole its for just incase the nut unscrews so you don't lose your prop/ cause hull or rudder damage


I get all this sorted I will be realigning the engine. I expect this to be very similar to aligning an I/O so far as adjustment of the mounts, just we're looking for .003" or less on the coupler.



Aligning is very simple and this will tell you if your shaft is straight/true or not. A true shaft is very easily aligned to under 2 thou of an inch

[sybrmike]

Wobble is probably from bent shaft or worn bushings, not the alignment.

I'd have the shaft checked & straightened if needed, reface the coupling (on the shaft), and install new bushings.

Bushings can be replaced while strut is on the boat. I used a hacksaw blade to split the old bushings (careful not to nick the I.D. of the strut) and then pry them out. You can drive the new ones in with a wood backer and rubber mallet - make sure to align the grooves in the two bushings. I don't know which is better, but I went with the XPC bushings. Tedious from underneath, but doable.

The driveline on my 89 Salt appeared original & just had brass nylocks on each end of the shaft and a cotter pin behind the prop (yes it's back aways from the nylock.

Good luck!

[cadunkle]

OK I had the shaft checked, guy put it in a lathe and it's straight. Runout was only a couple thousandths. Guy said that's about as straight as they come, and he'd have no problem running it in some of his race boats that see 10k RPM shaft speeds.

When I reassemble I'll use a nylock on the coupler end of the shaft, and be sure to put a cotter pin on the prop end. When I reassemble is there a proper way to seat the propeller and coupler? Once seated what should I torque each end to? I want to be sure I do it right so nothing comes flying apart at speed.

I ordered the XPC strut bushings from skidim, and a couple other small parts I needed. If this order ships as quick as the last one I got from them I should have everything I need by the weekend, and hopefully by the end of the weekend I'll be ready to hit the river.

[docdrs]

OK I had the shaft checked, guy put it in a lathe and it's straight. Runout was only a couple thousandths. Guy said that's about as straight as they come, and he'd have no problem running it in some of his race boats that see 10k RPM shaft speeds.

Not to disagree but fyi , thats the same thing I was told on my shaft but could not get aligned to less than 5 thou. Bought a new shaft and coupler ($315) and had it so I could not even get a 2 thou anywhere in about 10 minutes. .02


When I reassemble I'll use a nylock on the coupler end of the shaft, and be sure to put a cotter pin on the prop end. When I reassemble is there a proper way to seat the propeller and coupler? Once seated what should I torque each end to? I want to be sure I do it right so nothing comes flying apart at speed.


Prop nut torque 30-35 ftlbs

shaft coupler bolts 25-30 ftlbs



..

[cadunkle]

What about the big nut for the coupler,30 ft/lbs on that too? Only 30 ft/lbs on the prop? Seems kind of low for a large nut, but then nowhere I looked seemed to turn up any torque specs, they just say tighten prop nut. Want to be sure I don't lose anything.

So my strut bushings shipped, just waiting on those to put it all back together. Got bored and can't put my bike back together since I'm waiting on parts for that too... So a little shiney shiney...

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1020544.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1020545.jpg

Figure before it all goes back together I'll attack the strut, rudder, and fins too. Probably isn't worth anything to clean this stuff up, but it makes me feel better and keeps me busy! I just used what I had on hand, but can anyone recommend a good polish or compound for brass parts?

[docdrs]

What about the big nut for the coupler,30 ft/lbs on that too? Only 30 ft/lbs on the prop? Seems kind of low for a large nut, but then nowhere I looked seemed to turn up any torque specs, they just say tighten prop nut. Want to be sure I don't lose anything.



Sorry, don't quote me on the prop nut ......its what I've heard.....it is a function of the standard tapered friction fit with a nylock nut on the tapered shaft so maybe why its only 30 ftlbs and why some guys have so much problem getting them off. I've seen a 50 ftlbs for splined prop nuts. Does your coupler bolt not have a retaining set screw? Anyone feel free to correct me or add here. Or you could use German torque specs with a value of Gutentite.

Sorry couldn't resist

[docdrs]

Ok, here is the scoop.

30 - 35 ft lbs is the value for the prop nut torque (straight from acme marine). Then after a full throttle run you can check it just in case it has seated on the shaft more.

[cadunkle]

Alright, 35 ft/lbs it is. I will re-torque it after the first trip on the river. I'll do the same with the coupler end. My coupler has no set screws or anything, just the one nut to hold it.

Schnell schnell, Sie bist Gutentite!

[cadunkle]

Just got home and removed the strut bushings. Piece of cake. I expected to be fighting them and taking them out in pieces. Loosened the set screws and just popped them out with a few whacks with a hammer and brass drift. I was expecting a tighter press fit but I guess it's not necessary with the set screws.

All my parts come tomorrow and the weather looks good so with a little luck I can get out of work at a decent hour and get everything installed and aligned. Chance of rain all weekend but finally temps in the 70s so if that holds off maybe I'll get out on the river this weekend.

[beast 496]

A little FYI, Final engine alignment should be done with the boat setting in the water after 24 hrs. This will allow the boat to be in it's most natural setting. You can get it close while on a trailer, but to be dead on balls accurate, it needs to be in the water. The transmission flange to shaft flange should be no more than .003 differance from side edge to edge and up and down. You can us a .010 feeler gauge as a referance, if bottom slip fit is .010 the top slip can be no more than .007 ...=.003 I like to get the engine around the .002 if possible. Al

[cadunkle]

I've never aligned an inboard, so bear with me. So I would put the coupler against the trans face by hand, no bolts or anything. Then put a .010" feeler on the bottom of the coupler. Put another on top, note the difference. Adjust engine vertically to get those clearances the same, or within .003". Then move the .010" feeler to the side of the coupler, note the difference in clearance to other side. Adjust engine side to side to get the same clearance, or within .003". Re-check vertical, adjust if necessary. Re-check horizontal, adjust if necessary, etc. until nothing changes and all are as close as can be?

In the water could happen but after 24 hours won't. Longest I'm on the water is about 10 hours. In July it'll be in the water for two weeks, so I can check final alignment then.

[docdrs]

Have done a few alignments on dd and vdrives. Here are the instructions, long but really quite easy. I just loosen the bolts to free the couplers, no need to take them right out, if you do, mark both couplers with black thick marker so they are mated up the same way as starting. Moving the engine laterally is the most difficult hitting the trunnion with a hammer while applying pressure with the prybar will free it. Mark the trunnions with marker to gauge movement

Shaft Alignment Procedure

Completion of this work should take less than 1 hour .

Tools Required:
Phillips Screw driver
2-9/16" wrenches
Torque Wrench
Feeler Gauge Set

Object:

Align the Engine coupler to the Shaft coupler with less that .002 gap.

Removing the Interior:
1. Remove the motor box and rear seat.
2. Remove the rear center floor.
3. You should now be able to see the Shaft Coupler/Transmission Coupler Interface.

Removing the Bolts:
1. Locate the Shaft Coupler/Transmission Coupler Interface.
2. You will see four bolts holding the two couplers together.
3. Using two 9/16 wrenches loosen the nuts from the bolts.
· Once the bolts are removed check the following:
1. The grade marking on the head of the bolt should read "S30400".
2. They should be a 3/8-24 X 1 -" Stainless Steel bolts.
3. Look for wear or damage.
4. If the bolts are incorrect or are damaged replace them!

4. Once the bolts are out the coupler should naturally want to match up with out any pressure. At this point do a shaft alignment.

Aligning the Engine:

1. Holding the two couplers together, take a feeler gauge set and see if a .005 gauge feeler will slide between the couplers at any point around the circumference. Be sure to run the feeler all the way around. If it will slip between the couplers go to step 2. If it does not slip between the couplers go to step 4.

2. Next, spin the shaft coupler 180 degrees. Holding the two couplers together, again, take a feeler gauge set and see if a .005 gauge feeler will slide between the couplers at any point around the circumference. Be sure to run the feeler all the way around. It should slip between the couplers at the same point as it did in step I, if it does slip in the same spot, go to step three. If it slips between the coupler at a point 180 degrees for where it did last time examine shaft for damage (it may be bent) and examine the coupler for damage. If no damage is found, repeat steps 1 and two.

3. Too close a gap between the couplers the engine will need to be moved slightly.

- If the gap is at the 12 O'clock position you will need to raise the front of the engine or lower the back of the engine. To do this (using the rear feet): loosen the jam nuts on the rear feet. Then put a wrench on the tops and turn it counterclockwise. Make sure to count the turns and turn both the right and left feet equal amounts. This will lower the back of the engine and close the gap. If you went too far you will open a gap at the bottom. When using the rear feet to make adjustments, be sure not to lower or raise the shaft & coupler out of its "natural" position. For major angular movements (were you need to move the engine 2-3 thousand) use the front feet for the majority of the movement, then fine tune with the rear mounts.


- If the Gap is at the 3 O'clock position you will need to slide the front or rear of the engine over. To do this, loosen the nuts on the trunnion pins. Then tap the trunnion pin lightly to back it off and loosen them from the trunnions. This will allow the engine to be moved side to side. Using a pry bar, push the front of the engine more starboard to close the gap. If you push it to you will create a gap at the 9 O'clock position.

- If the gap is between the 1 and 2 0' clock position, you may be able to get the gap closed by lowering the left rear foot only.

- Keep repeating these steps till a 0.005 feeler gauge will not fit between the couplers at any point. Be sure that the shaft remains in the its natural position so that you do not cause premature shaft packing wear or strut bushing wear. Once you have gotten the engine aligned to within 0.005 repeat the above steps until the engine alignment is within 0.002.

1. Make sure to lock down all the jam nuts on the engine feet and the trunnion pins on the trunnions.

2. Recheck the engine alignment after the jam nuts and trunnion pins have been tightened. If it is still within tolerance you may proceed.

Reinstalling the Bolts:

- Install the bolts (3/8-24 x 1 " S30400) through the couplers and install the 3/8-24 Nylock Stainless Nut.
- Torque the bolts to 25-30 Ft Lbs.
- Double check that the jam nuts on the engine and the cotter pins on the trunnions are tight.
- Double check that the shaft coupler bolts are torqued to 25-30 Ft Lbs.

[cadunkle]

Thanks for the detailed instructions, very helpful!

I didn't get as far as I wanted tonight, would keep going but it sucks working outside in the dark with a drop light. I got the new strut bushings in without much fuss, they are very tight, no play in them at all with the shaft in. The shaft was actually difficult to get in even with lube, but spins without much resistance. I think that was the cause of my wobble.

Got the coupler on, unfortunately a nylock will not fit. The nylon barely touches the end of the threads and would hit the trans output shaft. So I used the stainless bolt that came off it but with some loctite. Checked alignment and it is off. I get .005" gap on starboard side of coupler and .006" on the bottom. This does not change at any point rotating the shaft 90* at a time. I didn't want to try to lift the doghouse out alone so I'll wait to align until I have a second pair of hands.

[cadunkle]

All done. Got it aligned to under .002"". Everything seems good and tight. Weather is looking good for Monday, so maybe if the rain and storms over the weekend don't fill the river with debris I'll try to take it for a shakedown run. Thanks for all the tips Doc!