May have ruined my engine! any ideas?

[supracalifragilistic]

we were out skiing today boat was running fine and temp gauge was normal. stopped to switch skiiers and boat would not start checked numerous things still could not get it to turn over. pulled the dipstick and found water in my oil. when we pulled the boat out of the water i noticed my exhaust flappers were missing.

I think when we through it in reverse water traveled through my exhaust into the oil (dont know if that is possible)

any ideas on how to fix this problem?

[L-Robby]

Need to know some more info. What year is your boat, what engine, how many hours, has the engine been takin care of? How much over-full was the oil on the dipstick and what did it look like?

[cadunkle]

Very unlikely. Reversion can hydrolock an engine but unless you crack a piston, break a ring land, etc. you're not getting any water in the oil. Even then, it would be a very small amount. Not likely to make a milkshake out of your oil.

Was this your first time out on the water this season? If so, you sure it was winterized properly? Could be cracked block or heads. Also could be a blown head gasket.

[supracalifragilistic]

this is the third time we have had the boat out this year. its an 89 saltare with 300 hours just bought the boat this year and the motor is a litttle dirty but seems to be in good condition the interior is in great condition and it seems like they took pretty good care of her.

[riveredge]

you sure it was winterized properly? Could be cracked block or heads. Also could be a blown head gasket.
+1 on winterizing, good place to start - a tiny crack somewhere, or blown gasket, could cause slow water intrusion into the oil. Has it been overheated recently?

[supracalifragilistic]

it hasnt overheated since we have had it and if i remember correctly ran at about 140-150 degrees

[Supra-in-steamboat]

Everyone is on the right track- I don't think you could force water into that Saltare thru the exhaust- possible, but not likely. Start by changing the oil- then run it, in or out of the water. If you have a leak, or bad gasket somewhere it will be obvious. Water will be squirting out of the motor. Make sure to have a mirror handy to look under the motor while it is running. Good luck and hope this helps.

[wotan2525]

If you're lucky it's a head gasket. If you're unlucky, it's a cracked block. I've been through it. Good luck!

[cadunkle]

Note it could also be an intake gasket. Only places a failed gasket can result in water in the coolant is head and intake. Possibly timing cover on a SBF, but that's very unlikely.

[supracalifragilistic]

thank you for the help.I am gratefull for your guys advice. I sucked most of the oil out today (does anyone have an easy way to do this on a saltare while the oil is cold?) I am going to get some new oil in there tomorrow i have been told to pour some diesel in there to help lubricate it(good or bad idea?) also planning on doing a compression test on it tomorrow but want to make sure the oil thats in there is good first.

[OUI]

My 89 Saltare hydro-locked, and it came through the exhaust. From what I've learned, without the flaps, if you rev the motor and then shut it off quickly it will siphon water through the exhaust and into the cylinders. If you do a power reverse and shut it off quickly, it will siphon water through the exhaust. There is a diverter in the riser that will prevent that, but with older boats that diverter can rust and become ineffective. A hydro-locked motor, however will not turn over, because the cylinders are full of water. So, if it turns over, hydro-locking is not the problem. If you have milky oil, it can be a head gasket, a crack in the exhaust manifold or a cracked block. A crack in the exhaust manifold will only bring water in after the motor is turned off. If you change your oil run the motor and it is not milky, turn it off and wait a day. Start it and run for a while, if it’s milky it’s a exhaust manifold/water jacket. To check for a blown head gasket do a compression check. If it’s blown, you’ll have two, or more cylinders right next to each other with no compression. A cracked block will show blue smoke at the exhaust, low compression and poor performance.

[wotan2525]

Also -- Leakdown test will help you pinpoint exactly where the problem is.

[supracalifragilistic]

I wasnt familiar with a leakdown test but i just researched it a little and sounds like a good idea. thanks for the advice

[supracalifragilistic]

OUI are you saying when you hydrolocked your saltare you ended up with milky oil?
I only tried to start the boat maybe three times after we stopped and then thats when i noticed the water in the oil, but as you said with hydrolocking the boat would not turn over

[OUI]

Mo Milky oil. When I pulled the plugs water gushed out of the spark plug holes. Then I turned it over to get the rest of the wate out. Plugs back in and it ran fine. I was lucky I didn't bend a connecting rod.

[supracalifragilistic]

i got a compression test done today. the first two cylinders on the left side and the first one on the right side read 90
the last two on the left side and the last three on the right side read 60
any ideas on what this may mean (sorry i am not mechanically inclined at all but have a fealing im going to learn alot with this boat)

[cadunkle]

Sorry but your engine is toast. It may run, but it will be down on power and not be all that smooth. Generally you want a 10%-15% difference highest to lowest at most, and good pressure is over 100 psi. Those ones at 60 psi are just along for the ride and not doing much work.

Do note that your low compression could be from rings or valves, or likely some combination. A leakdown test will tell you where you're losing the compression. Could also be head gasket of course... Which is a possibility since the lower ones are all the same psi and next to each other. My course of action if it were my boat would be to pull the engine, pull it apart and assess whether you can get away with a freshening up (hone, rings, bearings, lap valves) or if a full rebuild is required).You'll be looking at things like bore taper, piston condition, skirt wear, crank journal wear, valve guide and seat condition, etc. Sucks to deal with it right when you're gearing up for the season, I feel for you.

[wotan2525]

i got a compression test done today. the first two cylinders on the left side and the first one on the right side read 90
the last two on the left side and the last three on the right side read 60
any ideas on what this may mean (sorry i am not mechanically inclined at all but have a fealing im going to learn alot with this boat)

I'd move on to the leakdown test. I think smart money is on a head gasket.

Sounds like the engine is tired, but I wouldn't be pulling it quite yet.

[supracalifragilistic]

i was feeling a little ambitious today so i got most of the engine pulled apart.
this is my first time doing anything like this so i took about 100 pictures of everything and bagged and labeled all the bolts. i didnt perform the leakdown test before doing this.

what would you guys suggest my next step be?

[Supra-in-steamboat]

The next step is not losing those photos. How much did you take apart?

[supracalifragilistic]

the intake manifold is still attached or i guess stuck would be a better way to put it. the heads are ready to come off but i havent taken them off yet. i have a buddy coming over tomorrow to look at it and give me his opinion.

[cadunkle]

Depends on your budget.If you have $2000-$3000 to spend on this I'd do a full mild performance build. Unless you say otherwise I'll assume a full build would be your

When you get the heads off you should disassemble them. Check the condition of the valves, seats, and guides. If the valve guides are still tight, and the valves and seats are too heavily pitted or worn, you can probably get away with just lapping the valves and throwing new seals on there.

For the short block, pull the pistons and check the the condition of the skirts, rings lands, and cylinder walls. If no deep scoring on the cylinders (as in you can drag your fingernail over it and catch in the groove) and the pistons are in good condition, you can consider a re-ring. Measure the taper on each bore before deciding to re-ring. Under .003" is good, .005" is the max taper I would try to run if I was on a real tight budget and didn't want to spring for a bore and pistons.

Hone the old bores before reinstalling pistons with new rings. If you're closer to .005" taper try to hone the bottoms more to lessen the taper. The greater the taper, the more quickly the new rings will fatigue, resulting in blowby and lost compression.

Also check bearing and crank journal condition. For the bearings if you see copper they're toast. Good rule of thumb again is the fingernail test. Any grooves on the crank journals you can catch your fingernail in are bad and means the crank should be turned.

[supracalifragilistic]

I pulled the intake manifold off today and the block had a pretty big spot of what looks like jb weld applied to the top of it where the head gasket sits.
im wondering if the guy we bought the boat from did this right before he sold it to us or if it had been there for a while. looks like i will be pulling the engine to further examine if that is the problem

[supramariah#1]

Ahhhh not JB Weld. I curse the day that stuff was made. Works awesome on a lot of things for short time but people fix things temporarily and sell it. Sorry about that man. I am sure that fix wasnt disclosed. :( I do think this calls for a crate motor. it will help with depression also!

[Jetlink]

Ahhhh not JB Weld. I curse the day that stuff was made. Works awesome on a lot of things for short time but people fix things temporarily and sell it. Sorry about that man. I am sure that fix wasnt disclosed. :( I do think this calls for a crate motor. it will help with depression also!

If you get a crate motor, my advice is to take the old one out back and go all "Office Space" on it to help take some anger out.

[supracalifragilistic]

what do you guys think about using a block from chevy truck vs a marine block. i have searched the topic alot and have found so many mixed reviews.

[cadunkle]

I'll qualify this by saying I've never build a BBC. I've done many small block Fords, 385 series Fords, and a couple SBC, but never a BBC.

That being said, I would have no problem running a car or truck block in a marine engine. I've done it before for other engines with no problem. Differences are typically very minor, if any at all.

Post pics of that epoxied area. It might be someone sealed up the backside of a oil galley plug or something like that. That type of thing is not uncommon to find. If it is epoxy, remove it and see what's underneath. With water in the oil though, I'd suspect the block froze at one point and some cheap schmuck epoxied it rather than fix it.

[wotan2525]

I personally think that running a street block is OK. Make sure you use marine heads and cam, though.

[cadunkle]

Heads are no different than a block, fine to use automotive. Cam "marine" is just a term. There's nothing special about a "marine" cam. We're looking at intake and exhaust duration, LSA, and overlap. You're concerned about reversion in a marine application. Going anything more than a pretty mild "marine" cam will result in the same reversion issues you're have with anything more than a mild automotive cam.

So long as your lifters aren't all mushroomed and the lobes scores up you can reuse your original cam. If you want some more power or if yours is toast you can get another. Keep it mild though. Too much and you'll need some taller risers or extensions before the water and exhaust mix to prevent reversion. No need for a crazy cam in a wake boat though as you are looking for lower RPM torque.

[Safety Bob]

I have a 427 tall deck truck block on a stand in my garage now. Looking to do a stroker moter with a forger steel crank, 4340 forged steel extra length rods and forged pistons. I am looking to keep the compression at 10 or under. I am not sure on the cam yet. I was going to contact a cam builder and provide the specs on my '88 Saltare. Any ideas on whether I should go flat tappet hydraulic or roller? In all likelyhood probably going to a 496 or possibly a 540. Not sure yet on whether to go old school iron performance heads such as an 840 w/ rectangular ports or new aluminum designed for max flow. I may go aluminum oval port as I will not need high rpms which is usually what you are asking for with a rectangular port head. I will be going with a tall deck intake and in all likelihood a holley on top. Any suggestions? Looking for @ 500+ hp loaded with low rpm torque to jump the big girl out of the hole! Beast, are you out there? I know you are running a 496. How is yours set up? You have got to love all that power!:D

[DAFF]

Can you post a pic of where the JB weld was?? I would work on what you have rather than re invent the wheel.

If the crack is on the block then perhaps most of the internal components are still good. Find a engine from a another donor and go from there.

[Safety Bob]

Hello Supracalifragilistic, I was keeping an eye on an auction on ebay last week for a replacement 454 Pleasurecraft motor and it did not meet the seller's reserve bid. This was for a 454 engine with trans out of a '89 Correct Craft, but would be a drop in replacement for your Supra. It is the same combination in my Saltare. You may want to give him a call to see what he wants for the combination plus shipping. I would bet that he still has it, although I have not spoken with him myself.

Here is the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280678239807&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Copy the link into your browser to pull up the ad for the contact information.

Your local machine shop will probably have a rerplacement long block for you with exchange of your core. You may also of course have the shop mic all your components to see what can or cannot be reused in a rebuild. This could save you some money if your block, crank, rods, pistons, heads, etc. could be used in the rebuild. You may have lucked out with a blown head gasket. You may want to have the shop magnuflux the block and heads for cracks before making your final decision. Good luck and let us know what you end up doing!