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View Full Version : 21v Surf setup help



Bumpass1
05-22-2011, 05:01 PM
I've got a 07 21v. I have tried to surf a couple of times this spring, but have not been very successful. I am running 650 in the rear surf side and 1180 center sac filled as full as the locker will allow (probably 900-1000). We are using a 5' 4" Ronix Cortez. I have never surfed before, so that is probably part of the problem. It just seems like the wave has no push behing it. I can't seem to get the rope to slack off completely.

Thanks
Jamie

Kp aero
05-22-2011, 05:57 PM
your weight should be fine make sure all passengers are in rear wake side .
your speed should be around 9.5 - 10.5 and have boat drive in a 500 ft dia. circle with wake surf to inside . ajust rope so when your riding you are only 4-5 ft from rear corner of the boat . good luck

CarZin
05-23-2011, 03:50 PM
I continue to tweak the surf wake on my 09 21V. We had the steepest wake some of the experienced riders had seen this past weekend. For me, anything less than 11 MPH, and the wake is very clean. With a lot of people on the boat, speeds closer to 12 were good. Sometimes 11 is spot on. Just make sure you experiment with the wakeplate and the speeds.

I wasnt happy with stock ballast. It took me one weekend out on the boat to buy additional bags and a pump.

Bumpass1
05-23-2011, 05:27 PM
I wasnt happy with stock ballast. It took me one weekend out on the boat to buy additional bags and a pump.

Yea I know. I switched out the center 650 sac for the 1180 Gravity Games sac and replaced the 400 sacs with 650's. I need to pick up a pump and fittings to convert the old 400's for surfing.

pap
05-24-2011, 11:04 PM
Is swapping out the bags a simple thing? Where is the best place to buy them? We're learning surfing and so far have just been pulling via rope at about 8 mph. Not enough push to let go so far, maybe just speed. Wave seems decent just not very long.

(2009 21V with stock everything)

Bumpass1
05-25-2011, 07:09 AM
Very easy to swap bags out. Takes only about 2 minutes. Just pull back the red retaining ring on the connectors and pull the fittings off of the sacs. Remove the old sac and lay the new one in it's spot and reconnect the fittings and retaining ring. As far as where to get the, I ordered mine from www.wakemakers.com. They are very knowledgeable about everything ballast related.

I will get some pictures of my wake this weekend and post them

Bumpass1
05-25-2011, 07:10 AM
Very easy to swap bags out. Just pull back the red testimony ring on the connectors and pull the fittings off of the sacs. Remove the old sac and lay the new one in it's spot and reconnect the fittings and retaining ring. As far as where to get the, I orderedmine from www.wakemakers.com. They are very knowledgeable about everything ballast related.

I will get some pictures of my wake this weekend and post them

pap
05-25-2011, 11:50 PM
Wakemakers web site doesn't seem to be loading.

Can I ask a foolish question:

If the larger sacs create such a better wave - why didn't supra include them in the first place? What are the downsides? They can't cost very much more to have included in the first place.

iwakeboard
05-26-2011, 09:09 AM
Wakemakers web site doesn't seem to be loading.

Can I ask a foolish question:

If the larger sacs create such a better wave - why didn't supra include them in the first place? What are the downsides? They can't cost very much more to have included in the first place.

They don't fit the compartments very well, and if you were to fill them completely you couldn't store anything back there, also there is the issue of max-weight on the coast guard plate. For I'd say 80% (maybe more like 90%) of wakeboat owners the oversized ballast bags are unnecessary.

CarZin
05-26-2011, 01:54 PM
I asked the same question about the ballasts a couple of months ago when I got the ballasts and was told that liability has a lot to do with it as well. They dont want to be responsible for people overloading and swamping their boats, even though the hulls will easily support a lot more weight.

pap
05-28-2011, 05:20 PM
Well I ordered a couple of the 750lb sacs to replace my stock rear sacs. We'll see how it changes the surf wake. I'll have to figure out how much to fill them if we get a boat full of people, it's only been the 4 of us so far, but we will likely frequently have 7-8 folks on board.

Bumpass1
05-28-2011, 06:30 PM
I'm going to get out Monday. I have some plans that I am going to try out. I will post pictures of all different scenerios and what the setups were for each. Hopefully I will hit on one of them.

docdrs
05-31-2011, 11:26 PM
boys , put your boat and engine in your signature.........the 1100 lbs do nicely in the rear compartments of a 21v , my ? is why not go with the bigger bags , you don't have to fill them all the way but the capacity is there.......the one drawback is you have to reinforce the hinges on your engine doors and add additional lower stabilizing anchorage.

supra 21v
06-01-2011, 05:07 PM
I have a 2006 21v and it has been a learning experience for me and my crew. I am 6' for reference. Here is our setup with a few pics:

600 lbs in front
100 lbs in non surf side
450 across rear seat
600 in rear locker surf side
540 on seat surf side
540 on floor of surf side
2-4 people when surfing
wakeplate very minimal if at all


I have not been surfing too long so I had alot of issues trying to stay in the "sweet spot". I tell people weight on your front foot is like a gas pedal and weight on your rear foot is like a brake.

supra 21v
06-01-2011, 05:11 PM
We ride at 10.3 mph...

Bumpass1
06-01-2011, 07:52 PM
I'm going to get out Monday. I have some plans that I am going to try out. I will post pictures of all different scenerios and what the setups were for each. Hopefully I will hit on one of them.

I went out Monday. Had super early butter wakeboarding sets for my family and friends. We chilled for a bit when it started to get a little busy, then it got down right crazy on the lake and we rolled out. Didn't even try to setup for surfing. I'll get the pictures and setup this weekend as long as the weather stays good.

BthompsonAU
06-03-2011, 12:12 PM
I have a '07 22' Launch SSV... It sounds like you don't have enough weight in the rear. You shouldn't need any water in your center bag. I have a solenoid that is going bad on my ballast system, and it is leaking water into my center bag...so about every 45 mins, If I don't check it, my surf wake turns to crap - I pump out the water in the center bag and it gets steep and clean. FYI - I am running a FlyHigh 1100 lb sac in rear compartments - they only fill to about 900 lbs I am guessing. But I have the stock 600 lb bag that i fill with a tsnumai pump - I usually put about 200 lbs in that sack. I also have found that it helps to fill my opposite sack about halfway to get the bow up and stern down.

Bumpass1
06-05-2011, 09:52 PM
Well I finally made it out and had enough time to work on my setup. Here is what I ended up with:

Center locker - 1180lbs sac filled to locker capacity (around 900-1000)
Surfside locker - 650lbs sac filled.
Top of surfside locker - 400lbs sac filled and flowing down on to the seat
Human (free) Ballast - 450lbs on the surfside and 190lbs driver.
12MPH
Wakeplate 50%

I'm sure that I can play around and get it better. Pictures don't really do it justice, but I think it is a decent start. It was much cleaner when I wash driving and my friend was behind the boat. Don't have any good pictures of that.

Let me know what you think.
PS: don't laugh at my poor skills (or lack there of):rolleyes:

Bumpass1
06-05-2011, 10:14 PM
Here are the pictures

Bumpass1
06-06-2011, 08:54 PM
[QUOTE=Bumpass1;57618]
12MPH
Wakeplate 50%
QUOTE]

Thinking my speed was a little too fast.

pap
06-06-2011, 09:06 PM
Wow you guys are surfing way faster than I am thus far - with my stock bags I only can go about 8 mph or the wave starts to fall apart.

I'm hoping my new 750lb bags will improve things - should be here this week.

supra 21v
06-07-2011, 10:23 AM
I know when I go over about 10.5 i start losing the height of my wake. 1100 lbs is alot in the front. I would think running that much weight in the front would take the rear out of the wtaer too much. I'm sure you can get by with that much in the front but you are going to probably need more weight in the rear. I have only been using my wake plate at like 10 - 20%. Here's my port side. Wind has been bad out here so wake looks a bit choppy.

Bumpass1
06-07-2011, 12:23 PM
I'm dumping the kids with their grandparents this afternoon and hauling tail to the lake for a few hours before it gets dark. I'm going to work on it some more. I'll post he results.

pap
06-07-2011, 05:13 PM
Wow bump that wave is HUGE compared with mine. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I'm sure hoping the new bags will improve things.

Bumpass1
06-08-2011, 07:15 PM
OK, I made it out late on Tuesday. I left so quick in fact that 3/4 of the way to to the lake I realized that I had forgot the vest (bummer). So the only thing I could do was test, not ride. So here is what we got.

10.4MPH
650lbs in the port locker
400lbs on top of port locker.
900-1000lbs in the center locker
250lbs in port side of bow
140lbs driver
Wakeplate 25%

Oh yea, the view was not too bad either:D

The Squeaky Wheel
06-14-2011, 12:26 PM
Hopefully this link works. Me on my new Phase 5 skim board - super squirrely, super fun.
2009 21V. I cut fiberglass from the port side locker and had a 1500 lb custom bag made. Front (750 I think) full. 200 lbs on bow port side. About 350 lbs of human ballast in the port side cabin. Speed 11.4 - I need to slow down for skimming.

http://gallery.me.com/creativenav#100006/IMG_0287

pap
06-14-2011, 10:15 PM
Wow, that's a great looking wave and nice video. Thanks for sharing. Got my 750s tonight so going to try out tomorrow. They don't seem as big as I thought they would be - only go about 2/3 of the length of the cavity.

The Squeaky Wheel
06-14-2011, 11:34 PM
Pap,
I had a 750 in there before and I would put the stock 400 lb bag on the surf side seat. That combo gives a good wave, but it doesn't compare to my new custom setup. I don't recommend the 1100 surf sac that wavemakers sells for the 21v. I had that last year but 1) it won't fill completely and 2) it kinked my outflow tubing, we weren't paying attention, and the overfilled bag did $700 worth of fiberglass damage to the hull which required repair - so proceed at your own risk.

pap
06-16-2011, 07:24 PM
Went out with the 750 filled port side, and the stock front bag filled full. 3 people sitting on port side. I found I was getting the swim platform in the water on the edge and it was creating a very frothy/broken up wave crest. Not a smooth wave at all.

Tried wakeplate probably up to about 25% with no improvement.

Speed was up to around 10.5, didn't seem to help.

Do I need more weight up front? Or does everyone get this swim platform effect - not sure how to get a nice wave as it's creating a bunch of whitewater at the top of my wave.

The Squeaky Wheel
06-16-2011, 07:31 PM
It's an issue for sure. I've been thinking about the plate too, but can't come up with an easy logical solution.

I find the wave is much better with wakeplate up. I vary mine from 100-80% on the digital gauge. Try a bit more speed. In my vid above, I'm going around 11.4.

If you have the stock bag, consider getting a tsunami pump and filling it about halfway on the port bow.

From last summer. Port locker 750. 450 bag on the port seat. Speed 11.2. Plate at 80%. I forgot if I had anything in the bow, but it wouldn't have been more than 200 lbs

http://gallery.me.com/jwldoc#100577

pap
06-16-2011, 11:04 PM
I misspoke - I had my wakeplate completely UP, not down. And tried it down to about 25% or so.

edit: can't see your pic, it's asking me to sign in and my .me acct is expired.

Are you saying you are putting nothing in the bow sac? I had mine full. Do you put the stock sacs (I have 2) on the seats and then fill them? I'd worry about damaging the vinyl doing that.

The Squeaky Wheel
06-16-2011, 11:19 PM
my bad...try this link:
http://gallery.me.com/jwldoc#100577

In that vid I have the bow sac completely full (stock 650, or whatever it is). I think I may have 200 in an additional sac on the port side bow seats and I definitely have 400 on the port side rear seats.

After getting the 750 sacs last summer (wife is goofy so I bought two), I replaced the fittings on the stock 400 sacs, placed them on seats and filled/drained them with an external tsunami pump for $100.

I've had no damage to my vinyl from the sacs.

pap
06-16-2011, 11:28 PM
Is that with nobody else in the boat?

If I have 2-3 people, and have them sitting on the stern port side, then maybe I'll put the stock 400 up bow port like you say.

The other thing that I note is that when I'm seeing that video I see the same "whitewater" but it's up further than you're riding. Maybe my rope is just too short (I'm still a beginner and struggling to keep speed off rope) and I'm not back far enough.

The Squeaky Wheel
06-16-2011, 11:34 PM
my daughter was filming, but she's a flyweight. If you are only going to use one of the stock 400 lb bags, I'd put in the rear. I lay mine so 25% is on the sun deck cushion and the rest on the seat. Anybody else in the boat sits either dead center behind the pylon or in front of the bag.

Generally speaking, bags in back increase wave height, bags in the bow decrease height but increase the length of the wave.

My wave turns to foam if the plate is much higher than 80%

Yes, the sweet spot of the wave is a good 8-10' behind the boat.

I use this rope at full length: http://www.boardstop.com/product_info.php?products_id=835&ref=35

The Squeaky Wheel
06-16-2011, 11:47 PM
Not my boat, but this is more or less how I position external bags.
Instead of putting a bag in the center playpen like this guy, I put mine more to the side of the surf in the bow

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14149&stc=1&d=1306124805

batmobil
07-13-2011, 08:52 AM
06 21V

Front bag full (650)
Both Rear bags full (400 each)
400 lb bag laying on top of surf side seat and rear locker
original stock 250 bag sitting on floor leaning up against the back seat and side seats in the rear corner

wake plate all the up
1 person sitting on rear surf side corner
speed 10.8 - 11.1
perfect pass is set for rpm not speed about 2900 rpm


we could get about 12 feet back off the swim platform and still plenty of push

http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz264/dougalles/Roberge.jpg

pap
08-19-2011, 09:55 AM
A follow-up:

We had replaced the back stock bags with 750's and with port side filled full and front locker fill we still were getting no push and unable to get off rope at 10-11mph.

Saw another boat on the lake wakesurfing and it looked like they were going slower, so I slowed down to about 7.4mph - BOOM all of the sudden our wave cleared up and was perfect, no froth and huge. Was able to get off the rope (!) but very close to boat to do so.

Yesterday I brought out both original 400lb bags and a tsunami pump so now I have 400 port/bow, 400/sun deck/port and the 750 port storage locker and the stock bow bag. Again at the slower speed we have a beautiful huge wave pushing much further back, but at faster speed it all turns to white/froth.

I don't understand why we have to go so slow in our boat vs. what other people are posting, but if anyone else is struggling, maybe give it a try. The change was night and day - I was getting SO frustrated at why I couldn't get off the rope but as soon as we slowed down and the wave formed up it was night and day and a total piece of cake.

batmobil
08-25-2011, 02:16 PM
Maybe you are going the correct speed and you don't even know it? Have you had your perfect pass calibrated? Maybe it is not accurate to your correct speed. My speed is always different depending on people and weight in the boat. I set my pp to rpm, not speed and adjust rpm higher or lower depending on what the wave looks like.

Most recent set up:

2006 21V

Surf Port side
750 in port locker
400 on top of port locker and down on rear seat
650 in front locker
250 on middle of seat port side
250 on floor leaning against port side seat
rpm set rpm 3150 (speed would vary 11.1 to 11.6)
wake plate was slightly down (to bring bow down)
1 driver 190 lbs
1 passenger 170lbs in rear facing seat
1 other passenger sitting on motor (middle of rear deck)

The wave was very tall (over hip high) and we easily got 15 ft back from boat.

Don't have any pics because it was at night and camera on phone is aweful.

When sitting still the rub rail was about 2 inches above the water

I have never had my pp calibrated so who knows if I'm actually going whatever speed it's reading? Hope that helps