Ptownkid's saltare project...

[Ptownkid]

So i guess it's time to start documenting this endeavour. Oddly enough, Haugy ended up creating a thread named "the saltare project" which is the exact same name of the blog I started last year when i bought the boat...hopefully we won't confuse the hell out of y'all, haha.

Last spring i found a 1992 Saltare in New Hampshire for a blow-out price of $2900 USD and immediately made plans to drive down and get her. It was a no brainer as I could not find more than 1 supra in my price range within an acceptable driving distance. The previous owners had abandoned her because they owed $2900 in storage fees to the marina and based on the condition of the boat had no love for her at all. She was dirty, she was neglected, she was abused. The only downfall was that they had no trailer with it...oh crap. I started looking around for a tandem axle trailer and the used options were few and far between and most semi-local people wanted far too much. The cheapest new tandem i could find was about 4k CAD...so I was still interested in moving forward. The day I was about to go purchase a trailer the marina called me and offered a 2008 boatmate from a 21V...SOLD!!!

That weekend I left on the friday at 11pm, drove through New York, Vermont, and finally into new Hampshire. We got there at about 10am and checked out the boat. Dirty, check. Scuffed, check. Crappy interior, check. Engine....runs, holy hell thank goodness. There appeared to be no major damage, mostly just cosmetic which made no difference to me as I planned on redoing it all anyway. So we paid up and headed back for Canada.

It was an interesting drive, having never pulled anything in my life before, dragging a 4000 lb load up and down the hills in Vermont with a truck that was not all that happy about it. Border crossing was a breeze as I had pre-planned very well and had everything organized in a binder...took 15 minutes to pay my taxes and fees and officially be on my way. All said and done, between the boat, trailer, taxes, and fees I spent 6k CAD...I'm perfectly happy with that number for a 1992 composite stringer Saltare with a 2008 tandem axle trailer. Booya!

I wanted to put her in the water last year to run her through her paces and start making a checklist of where I was going to start. About 3 minutes into my test run, alarms started beeping and the temp gauge was showing an uncomfortably high temp...uh ohhhhh. At that point in time, my only boat experience was owning a ski supreme for all of 4 weeks. Don't ask, I bought my first boat 4 weeks earlier, big mistake, still trying to sell. Turns out it was just the impeller, but like I said, i knew sweet f all.

So once I replaced the impeller, changed the oil and tranny fluid, the engine ran great. Love these 454's, so incredibly manly. Never been a car guy, but I get it now... The only thing that seemed off was that the prop was wobbling like hell, which was because it was pretty worked over (previous owners...) and I figured I'd wait until the end of the season since I another boat to use.

Fast forward to this spring. I got no work done over the winter as i have no indoor work space access. My only real goals at the time were to change the prop, repair a small crack near the strut plate, and get her running well enough to use. Launched her 2 weekends with a different, undamaged prop and found out that the wobble was better, but not gone...then i learned about strut bushings. Came up to the cottage yesterday with the plan to pull her today, change the bushings, replace the pitots, do a small repair near the strut plate, and add flappers. Well...that ain't happening. The crack around the strut plate is far worse than before, and has me pretty worried. She's coming out and I'm doing a full repair on it, dammit.

Could be worse I suppose, and it needs to be done, so now's a good a time as any to start my ridiculously long winded rebuild log...stay tuned, this should be fun.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/Ptownkid/The%20Saltare%20project/007resize.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/Ptownkid/The%20Saltare%20project/008resize.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/Ptownkid/The%20Saltare%20project/010resize.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/Ptownkid/The%20Saltare%20project/011resize.jpg

[Rusty]

Hey...that's an awesome find. Love that trailer. What is up with all these SALTARE'S lately on this forum? They are everywhere!!! Gotta love that!!...they are the beast, hard hitting, big boy of the classic Supra line up. I agree with you on the 454...it's a monster engine! I'd love to see pics of the composite stringers...damn, looking back. I wish I would have just paid extra to go with something like that!

[sybrmike]

Great lead off story, but I'm sure it'll get even better along the way. Good luck with the project & keep us posted.

[Ptownkid]

Thanks guys, I won't be going as nutty as a couple of you, but I do plan on doing a ton of work to this boat! I forgot to mention, the price for the 2008 boatmate trailer in mint condition was $1700...great price as far as I'm concerned.

The crack around the strut plate is pretty bad. To the point that I'm very thankful that she has not sank, and I'm anxiously awaiting tomorrow morning to get her the hell out of the water. I'm pretty comfortable about doing the repair though, I used to work for a snowboard company making their snowboards so resins, hardeners, and fiberglass are not foreign to me. I'm a little anxious to find out just exactly how bad the damage is...I still have no idea if my 92 would have a wood panel embedded in the glass or not. I would assume that if they went to the trouble of using composite stringers that they would have used something non-wood as a backing plate but who knows. The previous owners quite obviously hit something as the shaft is new, the prop was dinged up, and there was a nick in the gelcoat above the prop. I don't even want to think about just how hard they must have hit something. They banged this boat up pretty bad in 3-4 places around the rubrail and the tip of the nose hit something, but it's all fixable, no worries there.

My overall plans are as follows;
- New interior
- New paint scheme
- Tower
- Teak platform to replace the beat fiberglass one
- Stereo (this will be the last and least important thing to me)
- New removable carpet (and floor panels to access the fixed ballast)
- Installed ballast on switches
- new dash and gauges (bought white Faria Chesapeake SS replacements already)

It's going to be a long road, couple years at least, because of time/money but I'm very motivated and very excited about the whole thing. I'm a really confident guy and have learned pretty much anything I have ever put my mind to so this should be interesting. I'll definitely be asking for opinions and advice along the way.

[TitanTn]

Love the story. Great detail, but it is only complete with pics...

[Ptownkid]

Pics are coming...I'm at the cottage using my laptop tethered to my palm pre for internet access...

[mapleleaf]

LOve the story of this boat and it's return to glory.....is that your Supreme on kijiji? it looks pretty clean, how do I get you to part with the tower? lol

[Ptownkid]

Nope, not mine, haven't listed it yet...needs points. Link?

[Ptownkid]

Well, we got her out of the water today, and things were looking up as they had graded the road into our cottage this morning making the haul in a lot easier, but the good times were not to last.

Took out the ski locker, and the gas tank to make sure that all i was repairing was the strut plate and found that my repair was going to increase in size...there's damage around the rudder mount as well, awesome. The odd part is that the gel on the bottom is fine, but I guess that's a good thing, it means my repair is not going to be a all the way through repair...hopefully.

Started removing the rudder, and may have royally f'd myself. It dropped out of the arm with a few good whacks, and then got firmly lodged in the lower half after a few more good whacks. I can't seem to get it to go in or out now, fark...

Other than that all seems to be mostly in good order, got the coupler apart and the shaft out pretty easy, so I can move on to shaft log replacement, repacking, and strut removal/bushing installation. However; what in the hell kind of set screws did Supra use? Maybe mine are different than everyone elses, but they look like an offset allen (hex) coupled with an offset slot...I own a TON of weird and strange screw bits, but this certainly ain't one of them. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/Ptownkid/The%20Saltare%20project/100_1623.jpg

I should have known that this was going to be more involved than I thought. I'm up for the challenge but it's looking like it might be a while before I can actually use the boat again.

Good vibes, send em this way!

[Ptownkid]

Figured it out...used to be a hex and some asshat cut a slot in them. One came out with a slotted screwdriver, the other with a screw extractor.

Onward

[Ptownkid]

Well, aside from discovering unknown damage, and possibly ruining my rudder, things went pretty well today. Got the tank out, got the rudder assembly out, got the coupler apart, shaft out, got the strut off, got everything exposed and ready for a grinding and glassing the next time I come up. All things considered, I ran into less hang-ups than I expected (murphy's law decided to leave me mostly unscathed) and at least I know I won't be running into any rotten wood...that's the one thing I keep telling myself. Could be worse, could be worse.

Tomorrow I'm going to remove one of the fins, as it needs to be straightened a little because the marina I got it from bent it a little putting it onto this 21V trailer. Not to worry, I already raised the bunks last year. I'm thinking I'm also going to take the carb home and rebuild it. Got the rebuild kit and found a GREAT online step-by-step with full pictures so I'm pretty much good to go on that one. I'll add the link when I get home and find it.

Here it is http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/howto/45798/index.html

Peace....beer time!!!

[mapleleaf]

Oh I wish....Kids are in bed, I'm going to replace my coupler (trailer) and we'll see from there.....
Enjoy a cold one, that's a fair piece of work you done there....

[Ptownkid]

Anyone know what size (diameter and thread) set screws are used on the strut?

[Ptownkid]

No one knows?

[Ptownkid]

So I'm up at the cottage and dove into the repair...and I'm running into some issues. Seems as though a significant repair was done, and done poorly...there's water in the "stringer" between the motor and back of the boat. I don't know that it's actually a stringer so to speak, as it's filled with foam right to the bottom, but it's completely saturated. I assume that this is somewhat normal and no big deal...but I need everything dry in order to glass in the strut backing plate.

The strut backing plate was obviously a repair, as it was wood and totally rotten, rudder backing was composite. They used some kind of blue/teal stuff to bed it in, and it wasn't even touching the hull in about 25% of the surface area...no wonder it cracked. As I was grinding down around it, near the shaft log, I was finding a crack as I sanded down and getting precariously close to the gel I think. Seems as if the repair was done without complete dryness and it didn't bond properly...damn.

Anyone have a 92+ that can answer this for me; do the walls of the bilge on either side of the strut plate meet the bottom of the hull at basically a 90 degree angle, or is there a step about 1/4" tall...mine has a step and it's built of glass over the same blue/teal stuff i found under the strut plate.

Suffice it to say, this is NOT fun and I think I'm going to be off the water for a good month. Grinding this stuff down is a tough task in a small space and I don't really feel like going right through the hull. The hardest part is going to be drying out the boat...no access to indoors for me.

Pretty de-motivating day to say the least. I don't mind repairing things, but it sucks to have to remove and repair a poorly done repair. Makes me worry that I'm no where close to done finding surprises.

[Ptownkid]

It appears that I was wrong...the backing plate for the rudder was also ply. Now i have no idea if this boat was repaired, or if supra did something silly like make the stringers composite but use plywood backing plates.

Just like the strut plate, the rudder plate was bedded in with some blue/teal stuff and not actually attached to the hull in about 30% of the surface area...kinda ghetto but maybe that's just how it's done.

[Okie Boarder]

Just an FYI...I found a lot of the blue / teal stuff you mention where anything was "bonded" to the hull. It appears it was whatever bedding compound Supra used at the time.

[sybrmike]

Pics of the area in question? Sounds like the same blue/green bondo material used to bed in the stringers on my 89. Also sounds like they were using the same attention to detail 3 years later - lots of voids & missing contact. Guess it's a testament to the strength of the hull to hold up 20+ years even with poor workmanship & spotty support structure. Sucks to hear of your discoveries, but hope you're back on the water soon.

[Ptownkid]

Pics soon, just got home this morning.

Cheers

[mapleleaf]

my boat had the blue compound under the old strut backer as well, it didn't grind well, thankfully there wasn't much of it....

[Ptownkid]

So I have toiled away for weeks, and I seem to have repaired everything sufficiently and she's back in the water. New backing plates for both the rudder and the strut, new strut bushings, repaired prop.

However; she still sounds weird...almost like a helicopter. I assumed that it was worn strut bushings, unbalanced prop, and/or bad alignment. With all those fixed it's still there. I should point out that the alignment is not 100% perfect, but it's very close and I'm reasonably sure that the sound I'm hearing would not be caused by anything less than it really being out of alignment. I wish i could describe the sound better, as this is very, very frustrating.

I'll keep poking and prodding and see if I can figure it out.

[Ptownkid]

Still can't decipher what the helicopter sound is caused by...and leads would be awesome.

Another oddity, the starboard side riser gets much hotter than the port side and pretty quickly. I'm assuming that this is not normal and seriously hope it doesn't indicate a valve problem...

She's also revving about 50-150 rpm every 3-4 seconds, man i wish I had spent more time on engines when i was younger, haha.

[Salty87]

can you take a video with sound?

how's the waterflow out the exhausts? even on both sides?

original risers and exhaust manifolds?...ever looked inside them?

do you have an infrared thermometer? they are great for all sorts of things and cheap too...i'm looking at you, harbor freight.

i'm no engine guy but lack of water will mess with the sound.

[Ptownkid]

I was planning on taking a vid today. Original risers and manifolds, had the risers off and checked for blockage, they are clear. Not positive about the flow out the exhaust as it's in the water.

Considering taking off the manifold, but I'm reasonably sure that's not the issue as the engine is running cool. I am going to check the water line going to manifold today.

[rludtke]

How recently has the carb been overhauled? I wonder if you might have blocked discharge nozzels or idle bleeds. If the fuel doesn't meter smoothly because of partly clogged jets and discharges nozzles, the fuel will dribble out sporatically, especially at idle. The result can be an engine idle surge (speed up and slow down). This is the result of fuel air mixture changes (fuel dribbling instead of consitant metering). Lean mixtures burn hotter, and more slowly, which would result in hotter exhaust temperatures (the presence of fuel in the mixture actually helps cool). I think the mixture is inconsistant in supply from the carb, and inconsistant between right and left sides of the engine. A carb clean and overhaul should correct the surging idle and the hot exhaust manifold.

[haugy]

How recently has the carb been overhauled? I wonder if you might have blocked discharge nozzels or idle bleeds. If the fuel doesn't meter smoothly because of partly clogged jets and discharges nozzles, the fuel will dribble out sporatically, especially at idle. The result can be an engine idle surge (speed up and slow down). This is the result of fuel air mixture changes (fuel dribbling instead of consitant metering). Lean mixtures burn hotter, and more slowly, which would result in hotter exhaust temperatures (the presence of fuel in the mixture actually helps cool). I think the mixture is inconsistant in supply from the carb, and inconsistant between right and left sides of the engine. A carb clean and overhaul should correct the surging idle and the hot exhaust manifold.

My thoughts as well.

The "helicopter" sound. Where does it eminate from? Does it happen at rest with the boat in neutral? Or only when in gear?

[riveredge]

Reading back through, it had a banged up prop when you got it, and you said it "wobbled." The other prop you tried was better, but also "wobbled." Sounds like a bent driveshaft to me. It should be within .003" and if it was hit hard enough to bend a prop badly, it could be a little tweaked but not necessarily to the naked eye. In any case, definitely don't put it in gear out of the water to check it, the strut bearing needs water to lubricate it.

edit: I was assuming the "helicopter" sound was while you were in gear...

[Ptownkid]

Yes, in gear

[riveredge]

I know it sounds stupid, but if the prop wasn't installed perfectly it could be making that sound... this is a pretty good guide: http://www.tacomapropeller.com/7830/Inboard-Propeller-installation-procedure.html

[Ptownkid]

Thanks, that's good to know! Might be the propeller after all...went to a reputable prop repair shop and it appears that the place I took it couldn't have possibly done it right. Going to try and get my money back.

[riveredge]

I'm not saying the prop is bad, just that it may not have been installed correctly; but that's very unlikely, it's just a thought. Did they install the prop or just repair it? The shaft could still be bent, too, you should check that.

[cadunkle]

I would pull the shaft and measure the runout. Any more than a few thousandths can cause problems. Also inspect the coupler and be sure the face is flat and no problems with the taper.

[DAFF]

Pull the shaft and start her up.... By putting it in gear with no shaft you can eliminate or find out the true culprit to the sound. (on land of course)

As for the manifolds.... Sounds like a fluid abstruction from the impellar not allowing enough fluid to cool it off. Pull each hose off the thermostat side of the housing (running to the manifolds) and stick a garden hose inside. Check the back of the boat for equal flow ....

How old is the impellar and what is the temps of the boat when running.