Cracked Fiberglass Shaft Log

[djm284]

Have some pretty big cracks in the shaft log on our 1990 Supra Sunsport and now water trickles in when in the water. Pressing lightly around the cracks it feels somewhat flexible/soft, similar to rotting wood.

I'm comfortable with mechanical and electrical, but have never attempted fiber, so I'll probably have a pro fix this. What are most viable options for fixing this (e.g., repair fiber, replace entire log with fiber, cut out and replace with bronze). Also, what range should a repair like this cost if I have someone else do it (we live in northern VA / DC area).

Thanks - Dave

[rludtke]

I would carve a v into the crack and fill with a cabosil mixture, and then laminate several layers of heavy glass cloth over the top. I don't think that this is a very difficult repair, as there is no molding or critical location required.

[Salty87]

okie's been there and documented it for us....
http://supraboats.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=3593&highlight=shaft

how much you have to repair depends on how much damage there is so there's really no guessing at cost until you have a better idea. fiberglassing isn't hard but it is messy.

[djm284]

Great! I haven't found someone I trust in the area yet (and being the overly frugal do-it-yourselfer with everything, I likely never will), so I'm happy to hear this is doable.

As I mentioned, I'm all too familiar with the engine and electronics on the boat, but as ignorant as can be when it comes to the structural aspects of the boat. So please excuse me for the extensive list of rookie questions...

1. "Carve a v into the crack" -- Is a Dremel and cutting wheel sufficient for this?

2. I'm assuming I want to make the v as small as possible while still ensuring a clean cut?

3. Since water is leaking through, I'm asuming I need to cut and fill all the way through. Can this job be done without removing the shaft, or do I need to apply glass under the repair too? If no glass required underneath, is any other coating required on the bottom or is the epoxy just fine?

4. Will the epoxy drip, and if so, can i just cover the shaft with plastic or do I need something butted up against the inside of the log? If the latter, what type of material should be used so that the epoxy doesnt stick to it?

5. What is the shaft log made of? As I mentioned above, when I push on the crack there is some flex similar to rubber or rotting wood, but shape seems odd for wood. Could it be rubber, or does fiberglass itself get that way with a sufficient crack.

6. I not sure what caused this, but have a few ideas that I'm not proud to admit. Given the nature of the crack, do any of these seem more likely that the others, and if so, anything I should be concerned about for the future. (1) Left plug in while out of town, cover colapsed in, and this area was sitting under at least a couple inches of water for probably a couple weeks. Only engine casulty seemed to be starter motor. (2) ski rope fell off back mid last year and tangle prop enough to stop it. Everything seemed to survive, except the ski rope. (3) New prop + cluttered potomac river after rainy week = old beat up prop.

Did a search for similar issues and the following is very helpful, just need to understand some of the specifics above: https://forum.supraboats.com/showthread.php?t=3593&highlight=cabosil

Thanks!

[rludtke]

1. "Carve a v into the crack" -- Is a Dremel and cutting wheel sufficient for this?

The dremel is perfect.


2. I'm assuming I want to make the v as small as possible while still ensuring a clean cut?

I would make the V on the order of a 1/2" wide at the upper surface, give or take, and perhaps 2/3rds of material thickness deep.


3. Since water is leaking through, I'm asuming I need to cut and fill all the way through. Can this job be done without removing the shaft, or do I need to apply glass under the repair too? If no glass required underneath, is any other coating required on the bottom or is the epoxy just fine?

I would avoid grinding all of the way throgh, as I don't know what the log is made of, and do not risk harming anything with the grinder. Filling the upper 2/3rds with cabosil, and then building numerous laminants over the top is intended to restore the strenght and rigidity to the composite structure.


4. Will the epoxy drip, and if so, can i just cover the shaft with plastic or do I need something butted up against the inside of the log? If the latter, what type of material should be used so that the epoxy doesnt stick to it?

If you avoid grinding all of the way through, I think you should be ok.


5. What is the shaft log made of? As I mentioned above, when I push on the crack there is some flex similar to rubber or rotting wood, but shape seems odd for wood. Could it be rubber, or does fiberglass itself get that way with a sufficient crack.

I always thought this was all fiberglass, but I am not sure.


Did a search for similar issues and the following is very helpful, just need to understand some of the specifics above: https://forum.supraboats.com/showthread.php?t=3593&highlight=cabosil

Cabosil is a structural thixotropic used in combination with composite resins to create filler material.

[wotan2525]

My shaft log has a visible collar and I believe it's aluminum -- it sure looks like it as you look down the bore. My driveshaft wore a hole through one side and we repaired it first with building up several layers of JB Weld and then resin.

[rludtke]

I would make the V on the order of a 1/2" wide at the upper surface, give or take, and perhaps 2/3rds of material thickness deep.

I would avoid grinding all of the way throgh, as I don't know what the log is made of, and do not risk harming anything with the grinder. Filling the upper 2/3rds with cabosil, and then building numerous laminants over the top is intended to restore the strenght and rigidity to the composite structure.


After looking at Okie's posts on his shaft log repair, I now think that you should go to the effort of grinding away all of the lamainants that hold the shaft cover in place. This means grinding essentially all the way down to the base hull. My concern is that water has probably found its way between layers of glass, and the laminents that wrap over the shaft cover have been comprimised. If you follow Okie's repair, you'll see that he essentially removed everything, so that he could start over like new. This is probably the only way to be gauranteed of sucsess.

[djm284]

Thanks for all the info. I like your first answer better though :)

So my next question is obviously subject to a million different variables. But any thoughts on about how long option 1 might take vs. option 2?

Looking at Okie's post, it looks like option 2 took about a month of weekend work. Given that it is now July, I'm in the middle of rewiring the entire second floor of my house and semi-finishing the attic, have kitchen cabinets sitting in a friends basement ready for our do-it-yourself kitchen overhaul (free, used, but in great shape - couldnt pass them up), and we have a full basement refinish including new bath on the horizon... a month long boat project probably means no boat until mid next summer (although using the boat has been my excuse for the slow progress, so on the bright side, all those other projects may actually get done!).

What is the risk if I use the first method? Could the water between the layers of glass create significantly more damage requiring a more extensive repair than just the log area, or will the patch just not last very long? Does a half-assed patch create any risk of a big rupture occuring and sinking the boat? (again, I'm as ignorant as can be about fiberglass, but guess I'm gonna learn pretty quick now).

If I'm just looking for a temporary fix to get me through a season and a half, is option 1 the way to go, or is that the best alternative?

I'm rarely one to take the shortcut, but ideally looking for a temporary fix until I have more time. Will want to do it right eventually, ideally in about 16 months, but If I can get by with a $100 and a four hour job to save a season or two, I'm fine with the lost time and re-work. But I dont want to do anything stupid that causes further problems down the road. I'm gueessing these are hard questions to answer, but I'm happy with educated opinions. Is there anything specific I can look for to help answer these questions?

Of course I could just have someone else do it, but if Okie's quotes came in at $1000-$2000, they're probably even worse up here, and who know's if they'll take their own shortcuts that'll come back to bite me in a couple years.

[djm284]

I probably should have put this at the beginning of the last post... If I misinterporeted Okie's thread and this is a job that can reasonably be done in a day as opposed to a month of weekend work, please let me know and disregard the rest of my questions. If it is a month, what is it that takes so much time, grinding? -Thanks!

[rludtke]

This is just guess-work, as I only have Okie's pictures and the recollection of what my boat looks like to go by. I think that the extra grinding is not much more work than the grinding you would have to do to prepare the surface anyway, and the glasswork is about the same. A small electric angle grinder should fit in there, and course sanding discs should make reasonably quick work of the glass that needs to be removed. Okie may disagree, but I would like to think that you could get the area prepared for re-assembly in a weekend. Add a second weekend for reassembly. In fact, I think it is likely that the whole job could be completed in a weekend, but I am trying to be conservative in this estimate. Of course Okie can quote actuals. ;-)

[Salty87]

don't forget that one of the first steps is driveshaft removal, that can go smooth or take a weekend in itself. if all goes smoothly i think 2 weekends is probably a good estimate if you already know how to fiberglass. start by taking the shaft seal off. might see if the shaft wants to go easy or hard too.

as to what caused it, the prop strike might have. i suppose a handle could too. i could see it getting wedged between shaft and hull and causing some flexing.

the closeup looks pretty nasty. that's a really bad spot for a flimsy patch on a big problem...if it is big. still hard to say from here if a temp patch is possible. you're gonna need to open her up a bit before you can plan an attack. a crack is easy to fill but a crunched area is a bigger deal.

okie's on the road otherwise i'm sure he'd have seen this thread.

[Okie Boarder]

I didn't remove the drive shaft, just worked around it. It took, essentially two weekends, but it would be feasible to get it done in one I would think. If you could grind and clean the first day, then set the log in thickened epoxy, you could glass the next day and be done except for putting the interior back together.

I would definitely recommend tearing it out and redoing. You don't want to risk any water that seeped in between laminate layers. It isn't hard to do at all and you should be able to follow the thread I made up. If you have any questions, let me know.

[djm284]

Thanks all. Okie, your threads on supra and wb are great! Can't tell you how lucky I feel that its all there and documented. Much less intimidating to take on with all the detailed discussion and step by step pics.

I wasn't brave enough to go out in this weekend's heat in a painter's suit, so knocked out some other shade and indoor projects this weekend. Likely will start in 2 weeks and hopefully knock it out in a week. Will keep everyone posted on progress and I'm sure I'll run into some more questions along the way.

Thanks again.

-Dave

[djm284]

Hi all. Finally diving into this project this weekend. Checked alignment and everything looks good. Started chiping away at the cracked fiberglass with a screw driver and most directly on top of the log came off w/o too much effort. Going to grab some items from the store and hopefully start grinding tonight or tomorrow.

Okie, if you are still around, I have a quick quesiton for you...

How many layers of the woven roving and cloth did you put on there. Can't tell from the pictures on Wakeboarder.com if each pic is a new layer or if some are just different views (and I can't seem to view the pics on the supra thread anymore).

Thanks!

[Okie Boarder]

IIRC, I used 2-3 layers of each after I bedded the shaft log in place. I just went and looked through all my pictures and even looking at them is hard to tell for sure. Using 2-3 layers of each would be good.

[wiatowski]

Totally unrelated sorry but anyone know why I can't seethe pics? not just on this post but others as well. Anyone else experience this? It's hard to know what's going on with out seeing it. All I see is a grey box that says "attachments" in the upper right hand corner. but no pics. Help?

Sorry to high jack.

[djm284]

I get the same problem. Suspect after a certain period of time, they stop storing pics on the server. The post on WB is more extensive and Okie took a ton of great pics of the whole repair. here is the link: http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=78670&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=210

[djm284]

Thanks Okie. I went back through your pics late last night and looking at the size of the pieces I think I figured out the order. Another couple questions if you remember...

Can I begin laying the fiberglass over the log before the thickend epoxy that the log is sitting in is fully cured. If not, should I rough up the epoxy layer once cured, or can I still get a good chemical bond beteween the smooth epoxy and glass if I wet it out.

[wiatowski]

I get the same problem. Suspect after a certain period of time, they stop storing pics on the server. The post on WB is more extensive and Okie took a ton of great pics of the whole repair. here is the link: http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=78670&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=210

thank you!

[Okie Boarder]

Thanks Okie. I went back through your pics late last night and looking at the size of the pieces I think I figured out the order. Another couple questions if you remember...

Can I begin laying the fiberglass over the log before the thickend epoxy that the log is sitting in is fully cured. If not, should I rough up the epoxy layer once cured, or can I still get a good chemical bond beteween the smooth epoxy and glass if I wet it out.

Yes, that's actually a smart move...makes it easier to get a good mechanical and chemical bond from what I was told.

[djm284]

So here's my update for the weekend, lessons learned so far for anyone trying this in the future, and some questions for Okie and the board...

Took about an hour to get the boat covered (kind of windy, so lots of fun). Definately over did it as not all that much dust has landed on the plastic. I'd say at least 95% stays in the bilge area, but gets ALL OVER the bilge. I had plastic covering down past the top of the transmission, but dust is caked all over the engine anyway, and some rug areas next to the front of the engine got hit pretty bad too. I guess in hindsight, this should have been obvious, but I pictured dust flying up and settling more instead of shooting the length of the bildge in each direction. Oh well.

Grinding went well overall. Turns out Okie had the OEM shaft log. The boat is designed beautifully in a lot of ways, but supra seems to have dropped the ball on this one spot. They did not use a shaft log big enough to cover the hole through the hull. Also, at the aft end of the cutout, the hull is extremely thin, but you can see in the picture that they don't put the woven glass over that part. This boat is a family boat bought new, with no major accidents or previous repairs in this area. So it seems to have been built this way for some reason, or whatever they put in that hole area doesnt stick.

In next post, you can see an approx 1" x 3" strip of epoxy (I think its epoxy) that the aft end of the log sits on. That piece seems to have been formed separately from whatever covers the hole. No pic, but looking at the cutout from under the boat before any grinding you could see the 1" piece which dips down a little, and the part covering the hole was flat and higher than the 1" strip.

Pictures:

I was able to pry off most of the glass on top of the log...

9362


Amazing what a little acetone and elbow greese can do! Next 2 pics show the area around the log cleaned up pre-grinding. If you look closely you can see the ouline of the fiberglass area as installed from factory...

9363

9364


Went full hazmat mode like Okie. Wasn't taking any chances. Highly recomend the full face respirator if you don't have one. Very comfortable and no fogging. Also essentially seals twice. Well worth the hundred bucks...

9365


The Epoxy and fiber glass keeping the log in place were tinted same bluish grey color as the bilge paint. Here I get down to the hull at the aft end of the log. You can see from the little bits of blue paints that the hull fiberglass didnt cover this area...

9366

[djm284]

Pics of the 1" x 3" piece under the aft of the log.

93679368

[djm284]

The bottom of the hull pics may be confusing. The bottom of the hull and the shaft are both painted for salt water. The piece with red where the paint chipped off is the shaft.

[djm284]

I finished almost all of the grinding today. 4.5" angle grinder with 40 grit flap disc made the job pretty easy. Used dremel for the hard to reach spots. Dremel battery died so just have a little touch up to do except for two hangups that I'll explain in another post. Pic of mostly done grinding is below. By the end of the day I did a little more than what is shown in the pic.

Okie, a few questions for you...

1. How did you make those cuts the length of the pvc, hacksaw?

2. When you did the thickened epoxy, did you end up going with the "peanut butter" consistency? (by the way, I'm using West Systems epoxy [105] with slow hardener [206]colloidal silica [406] as the thickener. Local boat store is West Marine and West Systems is what they stock, but suspect different brands should all work pretty much the same)

3. Did you end up fashioning some sort of molding for the bottom under the hole, or just smooth it our from underneath?

9369

[djm284]

...and here are my questions for everyone, including a few issues I ran into.

1) Should I leave the 1" x 3" piece in place? I'm thinking no, but welcome other opinions. It would make for less unsupported epoxy, but my new exoxy would have to be a thinner coat onthat end.

2) When grinding down I hit a few areas that had voids. Are these from air pockets? Below are some pictures of the biggest void, which is about 2" accross. How should I handle this? I'm thinking I should grind it out until I hit solid glass all around the edges and then fill it with thickened epoxy. You can see in the second pic that there is still some hollow area under the fiberglass.

9371

9372

3) This is the biggest problem. I was grinding towards the forward end of the work area, and all off a sudden hit a wet spot in the fiberglass. I kept grinding around the area so find where it was coming from and water continued to seep out of the upper part (starboad side) of the ground out hole. Kept seeping out for at least an hour, and may still be leaking (had to stop and cover boat for the night). When I covered it up it was seeping maybe up to a teaspoon every minute or two.

I can't figure out where its coming from. Before starting the project, I sprayed a small amount of water (maybe 1-2 quarts over 2-3 minutes) over the shaft log to confirm the original leak. That water was minimal. Some may have hit around the bottom of and below the hole, not the top though. This was the only water the boat has been exposed to since July, except for some rain (not a lot) getting through the cover occasionally. Non of the glass or resin around the log, even where I made it leak yesterday was wet like this.

Any thoughts as to how this could happen and what I should do? Hoping I dont need to grinding up my whole bilge? You can see from the pics that I'm almost up against the sidewall of the bildge.


Started around the middle. Whole area wet...

9373

9374

9375


Thanks!

[Ptownkid]

Oh god...this brings back memories from last summer...

I found voids and that grey filler all over the place when working on my saltare. I wouldn't worry too much about locating voids, but fill the ones you have found. As for your water, I had the same issue, and it was coming from the stringers. Maybe the same situation you're having, maybe not. The unfortunate part here is that you have no idea how long it will take to stop seeping, and until then, you can't do anything.

Hopefully someone else has more info for you, but atm you need to dry that baby out.

[djm284]

Thanks Ptown. Anything I can actively do to dry out the stringers, or now that I've opened up a hole, do I just wait for whatever can to seep out? I'll have to look around to see how water could have gotten in there in the first place. Is it possible that the water has been sitting in there since July (last time in the water) or did it likely come from the top side (e.g., rain)? What did you find/do about the water in your stringers?

[lively]

oh boy i think we got a live one here !! ... if your floor has not been out .. then the foam is proly still wet and your stringers as well ... voids like that are from either cracked
gel coat on the bottom side allowing blisters (pockets of water) , when i was grinding i would run into these all over the place ... you dealing with 20+ yr old boats and 20+ yr
gel coat ... it does not flex what so ever , it just cracks and keeps going ... if you dont want to open a can of worms then i would dry it out with a heat gun / blow dryer/
propane heater / something that is going to dry it out completely and then do your glass work and do at least 4 layers starting with the same size as the void and layer out a
1'' to 1 1/2'' to make the correct thickness ..

as far as testing the stringers and sub floor for water ... drill some 3/8'' holes through the stringer and see if water come out ... if no water then refill with CSM and poly to fill the hole

but dont fiberglass without cleaning surface thoroughly w/ acetone and dried out ... good luck to you

[djm284]

Thanks lively.

I'm going to try to get the holes drilled tonight or tomorrow to let everything hopefully drain out by Saturday so I can get the shaft log and glass done this weekend. I'll also do the mounting bolt test I've been reading about in other threads to make sure they dont spin. To be honest, what I'm reading in the other threads has me very worried. I had a bad cover for about a year, and also left the bilge plug in at one point when I went on vacation. Cover collapsed in windy rain storm and bilge filled pretty high with water for a couple weeks. Never fathomed that a boat would be designed in a way that would retain water. Only myself to blame, just wish I read these posts a couple years ago. Oh well, better late than too late :)


A few questions about your post...

When drilling the holes, I'm thinking drill low, maybe 1 inch up from the bottom edge of the srtinger, and drill maybe every 2-3 feet. Does that sound about right?

Is there a good rule of thumb to figure out where the cross members are so they can be avoided (e.g., are there specific visual points where the crossmembers typically are)?

I have West Systems epoxy and colloidal silica on hand. Can I use that in place of the CSM and poly to fill the drilled out holes?

Are you saying I should glass over the drilled holes after filled, or just the voids on the bottom of the bildge?

I'm new to fiberglassing. When filling the voids on the bottom of the bilge (the ones pictured in previous post), I'm assuming the second layer of fiberglass, which will be bigger than the hole, will dip into the hole a bit. Is that correct, or do i want to level it out flush with epoxy before laying the second layer?

[lively]

I would only drill a hole I'n the rear transom area about 2 foot or so off the transom wall and about 3" above the floor into the
Side of the stringer , if you have supertrapps exhaust tips I would remove center nut and investigate the seal ring and look for
Possible entry , more hole u drill the more u weaken the stringer and more filling you have to do ..
When I did mine I also took a pick and dug into the hole and removed the the wood to feel for wetness ...

Little did I know I opened the main valve for the nasty ass water ! Lol

When you fill the holes back up if the wood is dry then mix up some strands of CSM (chopped strand mat)
And silica to thicken like a peanut butter consistency ,, I use more silica , and then take a sandwich bag and fill it with your filler
Cut corner off and squeeze into hole and fair it out smooth .. Don't be frightened of stringers going bad ...

I'm 26 and have never played with wood to this extent ..
.. It is a great thing to concur and alot of beer !!

[lively]

I would only drill a hole I'n the rear transom area about 2 foot or so off the transom wall and about 3" above the floor into the
Side of the stringer , if you have supertrapps exhaust tips I would remove center nut and investigate the seal ring and look for
Possible entry , more hole u drill the more u weaken the stringer and more filling you have to do ..
When I did mine I also took a pick and dug into the hole and removed the the wood to feel for wetness ...

Little did I know I opened the main valve for the nasty ass water ! Lol

When you fill the holes back up if the wood is dry then mix up some strands of CSM (chopped strand mat)
And silica to thicken like a peanut butter consistency ,, I use more silica , and then take a sandwich bag and fill it with your filler
Cut corner off and squeeze into hole and fair it out smooth .. Don't be frightened of stringers going bad ...

I'm 26 and have never played with wood to this extent ..
.. It is a great thing to concur and alot of beer !!

[djm284]

Progress was slow this weekend as I came down with strep throat. But, I was able to tough it out for about 5 hours on Saturday (thought it was just a bad cold) before realizing I should just stop and go to bed.

Checked the two engine mount bolts closest to where the water is seeping from the stringer and they are tight. Checked the same bolts on the other side and they were also tight. Rest of the engine mounts are covered with taped plastic, so I'll check them when done with the grinding. Also drilled a few 5/16" holes in the stringers looking for moisture or rot - one hole on each side 2' from the transom and 3" up and one hole a couple inches above the area where the water is seeping near the aft starboard engine mount. The wood that I drilled out all looked good with no moisture or rot at any of those points.

No supertrapps, just flaps at the end of the exhaust.

Here are some pics of the weekend's progress/findings with some questions at the end...

Overall progress:

9485


This is the problem area where water is seeping. The drill hole a couple inches up had no moisture and wood looked good. Along the bottom corner I've drilled/scraped about 1/4" deep. What comes out is a blue/green colored almost plastic-like substance. Assuming this is the resin used to attach stringer to the hull. Water seems to be coming from the forward end. The screw to the top right of the picture holds the pvc tube for the blower, no water came our when I removed the screw.

9486


Closeup:

9487


A couple more potential problem areas. First is on port side on corner of the stringer where the exhaust goes under the floor. Second is the glass around the exhaust in the same area. See some signs of rot in the first pic, but not very deep:

9488

9489


Questions:

1. For the original job (reseting and glassing the shaft log) what is the best way to fill the areas where I had to grind down the the hull (red areas)? lively mentioned cutting a piece of glass that fits into each void. For the second layers, do I level the area with epoxy, or push the second layers down into the voids as well?

2. Based on what I've found so far, any thoughts on how to move forward with the area that is seeping water? Where/how should I continue to drill without causing a new problem?

3. Do I need to consider taking up the floor now? If I wait until late fall, how much more damage am I risking? Is there a quick fix way to do further investigation, dry out under floor, and/or remove wet foam without doing a full floor removal, at least enough to get me through this season without allowing significant further damage from the water.

4. For the cracks around the exhaust, what's the best way forward? I'm thinking pull the loose stuff, then add CPES and glass over it.

Thanks!

[lively]

if you have water just dry it out the best you can and (tab ) the side of the stringer to the floor to cover the void you ground into ...


as far as the glass work goes i learned from playing with it on a scrap board ... you want to put at least 25 oz of glass over the shaft log and use woven or 1708 .. just
something that has good structure ..

and when you patch fiberglass that is damaged the best way to get an accurate cut is clear film , plastic bag, anything seethru that you can trace the design (void) and
depending on how much actual glass you ground out will determine how much you need to put back ..
what i do is just cut my template X 4 and then layer out larger pieces 1" to 1" 1/2 OD to spread the load of glass evenly to the hull ...

research how to fiberglass on google .. it helped me alot ! and i am by no means a pro .. but id like to think i am lol

good luck man .. anything you alter or upgrade is 100% better than they did in 1986 .. so be happy with what you got

dont get into the floor just yet .. enjoy it for the summer and make it a winter project !

[Okie Boarder]

Mine didn't cover the hole either...it looks as though they put some sort of silicon filler in there. But, mine had been repaired once so not sure that was factory.


I finished almost all of the grinding today. 4.5" angle grinder with 40 grit flap disc made the job pretty easy. Used dremel for the hard to reach spots. Dremel battery died so just have a little touch up to do except for two hangups that I'll explain in another post. Pic of mostly done grinding is below. By the end of the day I did a little more than what is shown in the pic.

Okie, a few questions for you...

1. How did you make those cuts the length of the pvc, hacksaw?

2. When you did the thickened epoxy, did you end up going with the "peanut butter" consistency? (by the way, I'm using West Systems epoxy [105] with slow hardener [206]colloidal silica [406] as the thickener. Local boat store is West Marine and West Systems is what they stock, but suspect different brands should all work pretty much the same)

3. Did you end up fashioning some sort of molding for the bottom under the hole, or just smooth it our from underneath?

9369

Yes, I used a hacksaw IIRC.

Yes, I thickened it until it was the peanut butter consistency.

Yes, I made up some sort of "plate" for the bottom so the thickened epoxy wouldn't ooze out.

[Okie Boarder]

...and here are my questions for everyone, including a few issues I ran into.

1) Should I leave the 1" x 3" piece in place? I'm thinking no, but welcome other opinions. It would make for less unsupported epoxy, but my new exoxy would have to be a thinner coat onthat end.

2) When grinding down I hit a few areas that had voids. Are these from air pockets? Below are some pictures of the biggest void, which is about 2" accross. How should I handle this? I'm thinking I should grind it out until I hit solid glass all around the edges and then fill it with thickened epoxy. You can see in the second pic that there is still some hollow area under the fiberglass.

9371

9372

3) This is the biggest problem. I was grinding towards the forward end of the work area, and all off a sudden hit a wet spot in the fiberglass. I kept grinding around the area so find where it was coming from and water continued to seep out of the upper part (starboad side) of the ground out hole. Kept seeping out for at least an hour, and may still be leaking (had to stop and cover boat for the night). When I covered it up it was seeping maybe up to a teaspoon every minute or two.

I can't figure out where its coming from. Before starting the project, I sprayed a small amount of water (maybe 1-2 quarts over 2-3 minutes) over the shaft log to confirm the original leak. That water was minimal. Some may have hit around the bottom of and below the hole, not the top though. This was the only water the boat has been exposed to since July, except for some rain (not a lot) getting through the cover occasionally. Non of the glass or resin around the log, even where I made it leak yesterday was wet like this.

Any thoughts as to how this could happen and what I should do? Hoping I dont need to grinding up my whole bilge? You can see from the pics that I'm almost up against the sidewall of the bildge.


Started around the middle. Whole area wet...

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Thanks!

I would try to get to solid material as much as possible. If that spot is more like a patch, you might grind it, but look at how good of a bond it seems to have to the main hull. There's no reason to grind away material that is solid and well attached.

You definitely have water somewhere and since that spot if near the stringer, that would be suspect. Probably water has gotten in somewhere from the back side and has penetrated under that layer of glass and is causing some delamination (or there was already a void there). The best thing to do is figure out a way to get it dry then seal it back up, for now. Some of the suggestions so far seem like they could get you headed in the right direction. One thing to note is this is telling you that you have water up inside (surprise surprise), so be prepared for a rebuild at some point.

[Okie Boarder]

Questions:

1. For the original job (reseting and glassing the shaft log) what is the best way to fill the areas where I had to grind down the the hull (red areas)? lively mentioned cutting a piece of glass that fits into each void. For the second layers, do I level the area with epoxy, or push the second layers down into the voids as well?

2. Based on what I've found so far, any thoughts on how to move forward with the area that is seeping water? Where/how should I continue to drill without causing a new problem?

3. Do I need to consider taking up the floor now? If I wait until late fall, how much more damage am I risking? Is there a quick fix way to do further investigation, dry out under floor, and/or remove wet foam without doing a full floor removal, at least enough to get me through this season without allowing significant further damage from the water.

4. For the cracks around the exhaust, what's the best way forward? I'm thinking pull the loose stuff, then add CPES and glass over it.

Thanks!

1. You can lay a layer of glass to fill it then smooth as much as possible. You could also do some thickened epoxy with CSM, but you would get more strength out of a layer of glass, I think.
2. I would just try to dry the area and glass it for now.
3. Based on the fact you're finding some good wood when you drill and not much water, I'm not sure you are totally in the danger zone yet. I'd be more inclined to make sure all the motor mount lag screws are tight and go from there.
4. That could be a reasonable approach. There isn't anything extremely structural there if I'm thinking correctly based on the pictures. CPES probably won't help the wood a whole lot, but it can't hurt.