I need trailer help....

[wotan2525]

Started the PITA task of fixing up the trailer this weekend. Replaced all the bunks (only 1 was broken, but couldn't stand not having the carpet match and the previous job used some pretty awful hardware that was turning to rust.)

3-4 years ago I upgraded all of the lights to LEDs and rewired it. Besides that, I really haven't given my trailer much love over the years and it's starting to show. I'm trying to get it mechanically fixed up so that I'm ready to paint it when that need arises. Here are my issues that I need help/advice with:

The tires are trash. I trailed MAYBE 100 miles/year so the next set are probably going to rot before they wear out. Regardless, the current tires (besides being rotten) are only worn on the inside. My axles don't appear to be bent when the trailer is unloaded, so I'm thinking it might be springs? Can anyone tell from the pictures?

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6294/dscn0464sv.th.jpg (http://img16.imageshack.us/i/dscn0464sv.jpg/)http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/8444/dscn0465y.th.jpg (http://img703.imageshack.us/i/dscn0465y.jpg/)http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9195/dscn0457l.th.jpg (http://img543.imageshack.us/i/dscn0457l.jpg/)http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/3253/dscn0458f.th.jpg (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/dscn0458f.jpg/)


The brakes have never worked. The line running from the left to right side was severed when I bought the boat and I've never fixed it. Yes, it's been a pain but since I don't ever tow very far or very fast, I've never fixed it. I figured it would be a good time to run a new line. I haven't checked out the shoes or drums yet, but I figure at the very least I should spray some WD-40 around in the works because it's probably totally seized up after not moving for 10 years. The only thing I'm worried about is that I can't find a back-up lock-out on my coupler. Won't my brakes engage as I'm trying to back into the water or back into my driveway? Does this not put enough pressure on them to engage? Help?

[wotan2525]

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7613/dscn0461j.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/dscn0461j.jpg/)http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/1514/dscn0462dh.th.jpg (http://img840.imageshack.us/i/dscn0462dh.jpg/)http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1927/dscn0463m.th.jpg (http://img594.imageshack.us/i/dscn0463m.jpg/)

[Blackntan90]

I am not sure about the tire wear issue- I think you need someone w/expertise in trailers to diagnose that one correctly. As far as the surge brakes go, you will only need to lock-out the actuator if you are backing uphill. On my '90 SWP, I spray the ENTIRE actuator mechanicals with Seafoam every 2-3 months to ward off corrosion and brake failure(had the line going across the axle fail on me the first year I had the boat-THAT was scary as hell- even w/ a full size pickup!) I went through all of my brake components a couple of years ago- replaced lines(remember to double-flare) and master cylinder, hoses and shoes. I got all my parts from local NAPA store, Just took in my old stuff and they matched it up. I also flush the brake fluid every spring.

[Sluggo]

I have had trailers with the manual releases and they were usually pretty obvious levers near the surge mechanism. If you don't see anything on the back side or underneath then is it possible it is electronic? Looks like you have a standard flat 4 harness, but there are a couple splices in it, so is it possible that wire was left out since the brakes did not work?

[haugy]

You're going to need to check the springs and axles with the boat on it. If the square tubes are straight, then check the hubs and bearings. A worn bearing or race could cause them to be out of alignment which will wear on your tires. Plus it's bad for the tires. Since you don't drive far they may have never really gotten the chance to heat up.

Your trailer has no lockout for reverse. Have fun. Mine does, and I still don't use it. And I do back up a slope into the shop. It just goes a little slower.

[wotan2525]

Thanks, guys. Square tubes are straight. Bearings all seem fine -- the one time per year that I trailer to storage (about 15 miles) none of the hubs get warm or puke any grease. I might just replace the springs anyway and try to get another 1" of clearance so that my neighbors stop being irritated by me dragging ass out of our alley. ;)

[sybrmike]

I wouldn't sweat the reverse lockout with original drum brakes. Trailer drum brakes don't work too well in reverse anyway. Hope you can find components for your actuator.

[cadunkle]

I might just replace the springs anyway and try to get another 1" of clearance so that my neighbors stop being irritated by me dragging ass out of our alley. ;)

Now I don't feel so bad leaving my mark all over town...

[cadunkle]

I wouldn't sweat the reverse lockout with original drum brakes. Trailer drum brakes don't work too well in reverse anyway. Hope you can find components for your actuator.

Mine has drum brakes on both axles and to back up a slight incline or into driveway I have to go very slow or it'll lock the wheels and either not move or I'll be dragging them. I have a manual lockout, but it doesn't always stay in the locked out position.

[Jetlink]

I might just replace the springs anyway and try to get another 1" of clearance so that my neighbors stop being irritated by me dragging ass out of our alley. ;)

You might find that by just replacing your leaf springs with new ones, you won't have to add anything to try and get a higher ride height. Before I replaced my springs, I would drag the back end of the trailer a little getting into or out of my driveway and my future in-laws as well, both have a rather steep approach and transition. Now, not even a real issue that I have to worry about though I still try and be mindful of the approach.

[wotan2525]

Now I don't feel so bad leaving my mark all over town...

I should take a picture of the ramp into my alley. 50+ times in and 50+ times out per year for the last 4-5 years has left it pretty scarred up.

[Jetlink]

I should take a picture of the ramp into my alley. 50+ times in and 50+ times out per year for the last 4-5 years has left it pretty scarred up.

I would think that by now you would have a groove worn in thereby eliminating any scraping...

[wotan2525]

I would think that by now you would have a groove worn in thereby eliminating any scraping...

No, because I'm not that consistent of a driver and it's a tight 90degree turn into the alley. On the way out it scrapes the concrete (which isn't too beat up.) But on the way back in, it's scarred the asphalt.

[Tim405]

Funny you guys mentioned that - My Legacy trailer would scrape backing up the drive ( it'sa hill) and the Launch's trailer doesn't have a problem. In the short time I had 2 boats ( both tandem axle trailers)- we observed that the set on the Launch trailer were quite a bit further aft than the Legacy's set up.
Hope you have good luck fixin the trailer - just like the boat, it's a function of dollars! LOL

[ruby23m]

Rob, I think you and I could a have a trailer fixing party. I put a new actuator on last year, but the brakes still don't work. I'm sure the whole system needs to be bled properly but who knows if the drum brakes are even functional. My tires are damn near shot as well, should probably get a spare to mount at the very least. You need help, let me know- work is slow!

[wotan2525]

I thought all I'd need to do to finish up my brakes is fill up the system with fluid and bleed them.... HAH! I think the master cylinder is shot. I also think my brake lines might be rusted solid.... The mityvac just pumps up the main line even when it's disconnected at both ends. Looks like (of course) this is going to turn into a bigger project than I had hoped.

I'll order a new master cylinder, pump the lines as full of brake cleaner as I can and hope for the best.

[Salty87]

how do you swap the master cylinder on your trailer? it's in a tight spot. i need to get a new coupler/actuator and luckily mine's a bolt on.

[wotan2525]

Great how-to video here.... http://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Atwood/85841.html

That's the exact same coupler that I have, so it's really not that hard! As far as I can tell my shock-absorber is still good. The cap is junk and the master cylinder has had nothing but water in it for 10 years, so I'm just going to go ahead and replace it. I'll also buy the new push-rod assembly. It should be just like a brand new actuator for less than $100.

Then I have to figure out the brake lines...

[haugy]

Mental note. If ever a Supraboats.com rally and we all tow our stuff out there. Do not get in front of anyone here. :D :D

First thing I tackled was the breaks and lights on the trailer, before the boat.

[wotan2525]

Mental note. If ever a Supraboats.com rally and we all tow our stuff out there. Do not get in front of anyone here. :D :D

First thing I tackled was the breaks and lights on the trailer, before the boat.

Hah! I wouldn't worry about that.... I can't/don't tow my boat anywhere. It's scary on the interstate with just a 1/2 ton truck....

The river is 1 mile away and no reason to go over 25mph. I think I could tow it that far with a lawn mower if I needed to.

[Blackntan90]

I did the brake lines/hoses and master pretty early on as well- it is scary as hell getting pushed through a red light in a half ton truck because your trailer just blew out a rusted brake line!! When I replaced the line going through the frame from the tounge back to the front axle, I found that is where it had rusted through. So I painted the lines(old ones were not!) and put a couple of short lengths of hose over it to prevent chafe inside the frame where you cannot secure it in any way(other than spray foam!) It is a crappy job, but if you have the right tools(double flare tool,line wrench), it is well worth it!

[wotan2525]

I did the brake lines/hoses and master pretty early on as well- it is scary as hell getting pushed through a red light in a half ton truck because your trailer just blew out a rusted brake line!! When I replaced the line going through the frame from the tounge back to the front axle, I found that is where it had rusted through. So I painted the lines(old ones were not!) and put a couple of short lengths of hose over it to prevent chafe inside the frame where you cannot secure it in any way(other than spray foam!) It is a crappy job, but if you have the right tools(double flare tool,line wrench), it is well worth it!

My lines are painted and don't show any sign of rust... but.... How did you run the new line into the frame? Mine looks like it was put in before the coupler was welded on.

[cadunkle]

Note what I did to help with the low clearance / scraping problem is first get larger tires... 205/75/15 IIRC (i may be mistaken, my memory isn't what it used to be) and then got a sheet of 3/4" UHMW plastic, countersunk some holes into it and bolted it to my prop gaurd. Now when she scraped she glides and just scuffs the UHMW sheet. Guys at the gas station gave me dirty looks all the time before that. haha

[haugy]

Note what I did to help with the low clearance / scraping problem is first get larger tires... 205/75/15 IIRC (i may be mistaken, my memory isn't what it used to be) and then got a sheet of 3/4" UHMW plastic, countersunk some holes into it and bolted it to my prop gaurd. Now when she scraped she glides and just scuffs the UHMW sheet. Guys at the gas station gave me dirty looks all the time before that. haha

Great idea!! I've been trying to think of what I could bolt to my guard that wouldn't tear apart after two drags. Thanks.

[scottchapin]

I've thought about putting these on, welding them to the bottom of the prop gaurd.
: http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/steel-mini-roller-weld-on/49078

[haugy]

Seeing how most of my drags are when I'm turning out of somewhere, fixed wheels won't help much since it will be going across the wheel instead of with it.

Plus, that will cut your clearance by about 2 inches.

[SuperSaltAir]

Just an FYI I just did the master cylinder on my boat got all the air out of the system hooked the boat up to the truck
slammed on the brakes once got her up to speed again slammed on the brakes again and when I went to try and get going again it just felt like there was something holding the truck back. Pulled up in to the driveway and all 4 wheels of the trailer ware locked up. It ended up that all 4 of the brake caliper cylinders ware rusted from sitting around for years when the actuator was not working and now that I had it fixed it had enough power to push the shoos out but the springs could not pull them back in and my tires would not spin. To fix them was cheap and easy you can just hone the cylinders which is what I did since it was sun and I could not get the replacement parts but they sold the tool at outozone or you can replace the part itself its about 10$. And I would also recommend changing the brake shoos once I had everything fixed and working right the 20 yrs old shoos delaminated and the wear surface fell of the metal.

[wotan2525]

Thanks! Here's where I stand right now....

I replaced the master cylinder and the brake line going across the axle. Also replaced the shoulder bolt and the push-rod mechanism that activates the master cylinder.

Of course I found out that the main line was rusted solid, so I pulled out the old steel line (how they ever got that in the frame, I'll never know.) I've ordered a new flexible line to run through there. Also ordered a new to latch mechanism since that will be almost the last moving part to be replaced and I might as well go whole hog at this point.

I pulled the hubs off and gave all of the drum mechanisms a good shot of WD40 to try and loosen them up. I'm worried that the wheel brake cylinders are going to be rusty, but I'm not sure how to address that besides just pumping them full of fluid and seeing what happens.

Additionally, I finally picked up my own tow vehicle. It's not pretty to look at, but I was driving past a farm and the guy had a 1993 F-250 parked outside for $600. I got him down to $400 and it's mine. Picked up a class IV hitch and spent a few hours getting it bolted on. Paid the DMV their bullcrap $230 for registration and gave it a go. It works awesome!! So happy to finally have my own truck.... The F250 pulls it really well and with a few little tweaks it should work out for a while.

[SuperSaltAir]

This is what I did to mines.Pull the cylinders off they are bolted from the back. Use compressed air to to blow the piston out I just took my air blower with a cone shaped rubber nosle on the end put it on where the brake line goes and blow. BE CAREFUL DOING THIS IT WILL SHOOT THE PISTON OUT LIKE A SHOT GUN POINT IT IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION OR WRAP IT IN A HEAVY RAG OR SOMETHING. The piston consist of tree parts metal piston and a rubber gasket behind it and a spring. Once u have the pistons out take your brake caliper honing stones that you got from your local auto parts store put it on a drill and hone the cylinder. I used lots of brake cleaner and compressed air to keep everything clean including the stones. When you have everything honed and clean put back together and mount on the trailer. You can take this anyway you want but I learned the hard way that if you half ass this and don't do it and one of your pistons gets stuck in the open position you will end up with alot more damage to your trailer later on. When mines locked up I ended up having to buy a new drum new pads new bearings and a bearing seal sleeve kit. It overheated the hub and the bearing gave out and just wiped everything out I almost ended up having to replace the axle but I got lucky that I could find a sleeve kit to fix the seals. And this all happened withing 2 miles of my house.

[wotan2525]

Yikes... Thanks! I'll make sure to clean and hone that out.... I assume I have to pull the hubs and wheels to get to the wheel cylinder? Or will they come off the back without pulling the hubs?

[SuperSaltAir]

Yes pull the tire pull of the drum pull the springs off unbolt from the back and remove. If you dont feel like honing them out you can just change them they are cheap maybe around 10$ napa caries allot of stuff that might work for you. Also since you have the brake pads almost off I think its worth changing them. The ones on my 20yrs old saltaire delaminated the friction material fell of the metal bracket that holds it im not sure why but it did there was allot of material there they looked brand new but just separated.

[rludtke]

I recently went through my trailer to restore all of its mechanical functionality.

I replaced the original hydraulic actuator with a new Atwood (http://www.southwestwheel.com/store/p-179-a882543.aspx) actuator from SouthWest Wheel. I had to grind the welds mounting the original, but the Atwood can be bolted on. It features a mechanical reverse lock-out feature.

I also incorporated this solenoid valve: http://www.southwestwheel.com/store/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=117&SEName=kkbaksvnokit. You plumb it into the system just downstream from the actuator, and wire it to your reverse light circuit. When reversing the trailer, the solenoid closes and prevents the actuator from pressurizing the brakes.

I also replaced the original mechanical brakes with Kodiak discs (http://www.southwestwheel.com/store/p-106-kk1hrcm10ekit.aspx) as my hubs were bad anyway, and many parts were missing from the mechanical brake actuator system. A little expensive, but in the long run, I think this was a good decision. The brakes are very effective, and much easier to maintain.

Cheers,

[wotan2525]

Yes pull the tire pull of the drum pull the springs off unbolt from the back and remove. If you dont feel like honing them out you can just change them they are cheap maybe around 10$ napa caries allot of stuff that might work for you. Also since you have the brake pads almost off I think its worth changing them. The ones on my 20yrs old saltaire delaminated the friction material fell of the metal bracket that holds it im not sure why but it did there was allot of material there they looked brand new but just separated.

Thanks so much for this. My wheel cylinders were indeed completely seized up. The bleed screw was wrecked and even with 150psi of pressure, I couldn't get the cup out of the bore.

I finally resorted to a mixture of wire brush and steel wool to get the cylinder and PB Blaster to get the cup out with air pressure. Luckily it wasn't facing my head or I'm pretty sure I'd still be in the ER. It happened at the exact moment that I was convinced that it wasn't going to come out.

Regardless -- there's no way that those pistons were going to be moving without me rebuilding them. I've only got one side done but I'm confident I can probably get the other side torn down and rebuilt in about an hour and a half.

[SuperSaltAir]

:) Im happy I could help out. And I am glad I was able to prevent someone from having to pull the drums off when the brakes are fully engaged that is a major PITA. Good luck with the rest of it let us know how it goes.

[wotan2525]

Finally got everything replaced and hooked back up. I think I've replace almost every part in the coupler (I will also absolutely eff up the guy that engineered that little spring that keeps the latch down.) The entire coupler mechanism goes together like a puzzle. Replace a piece in the wrong order and you are screwed!! The old nuts on it were all one-way nuts (which I've never heard of.)

Regardless, I've got a new master cylinder, new shock absorber, new brake lines, new t fittings and rebuilt wheel cylinders with new pads. Here's the last problem -- I'm using a mityvac to bleed and I can't seem to get the air out. I've probably sucked through at least 2 pints of fluid. Should it take that long??

[sybrmike]

Glad to hear of the trailer progress. I don't know about two pints, but it took a lots of push/pulls after I installed all new lines, couplers, calipers, etc. - not much throw on the coupler piston. Could the mityvac be pulling air through a loose connection?

[wotan2525]

That's my concern. It could also just be pulling air through the bleeder valve threads. Going to bleed it again for a while this weekend. Couldn't spend any more time laying under the boat without feeling like a hobbit. Now that my starter is fried, I'll have to find something to do!

[tezmo]

how did you pull the hubs off ? - on my 1987 Saltare trailer (with Atwood drum brakes) it looks like the bearing will have to come off to get the hub removed if I cannot slip the hub over the end of the bearingl
Thanks! Here's where I stand right now....

I replaced the master cylinder and the brake line going across the axle. Also replaced the shoulder bolt and the push-rod mechanism that activates the master cylinder.

Of course I found out that the main line was rusted solid, so I pulled out the old steel line (how they ever got that in the frame, I'll never know.) I've ordered a new flexible line to run through there. Also ordered a new to latch mechanism since that will be almost the last moving part to be replaced and I might as well go whole hog at this point.

I pulled the hubs off and gave all of the drum mechanisms a good shot of WD40 to try and loosen them up. I'm worried that the wheel brake cylinders are going to be rusty, but I'm not sure how to address that besides just pumping them full of fluid and seeing what happens.

Additionally, I finally picked up my own tow vehicle. It's not pretty to look at, but I was driving past a farm and the guy had a 1993 F-250 parked outside for $600. I got him down to $400 and it's mine. Picked up a class IV hitch and spent a few hours getting it bolted on. Paid the DMV their bullcrap $230 for registration and gave it a go. It works awesome!! So happy to finally have my own truck.... The F250 pulls it really well and with a few little tweaks it should work out for a while.

[lively]

Finally got everything replaced and hooked back up. I think I've replace almost every part in the coupler (I will also absolutely eff up the guy that engineered that little spring that keeps the latch down.) The entire coupler mechanism goes together like a puzzle. Replace a piece in the wrong order and you are screwed!! The old nuts on it were all one-way nuts (which I've never heard of.)

Regardless, I've got a new master cylinder, new shock absorber, new brake lines, new t fittings and rebuilt wheel cylinders with new pads. Here's the last problem -- I'm using a mityvac to bleed and I can't seem to get the air out. I've probably sucked through at least 2 pints of fluid. Should it take that long??when u cant force bleed, I always get the master as high away from calipers or wheel cylinders and just gravity bleed and take those little bottles of
brake fluid and tip it up and let the fluid be the guide .. do u see any bubbles in the master?