Boat took on water - enough to wet the carpet behind the driver...

[rludtke]

Hi Folks,

Anyone experience this one? We noticed that the carpet was slightly under water on the right hand side, nearest the outboard edge, while we had stopped to switch riders. I opened the engine cover and found the bilge uncomfortably full. Needless to say, we cut our fun and games short and headed for the beach. I had my bilge pump on at the time we noticed the water in the boat, but I am unsure if water was pumping as I was to busy to look overboard. After putting the nose of the boat onto the sand next to the boat launch, I shut her down, and noted a strong stream of water exiting the bilge outlet.

I asked my wife to monitor the pumping while I went to retrieve the truck and trailer. By the time I had the trailer in the water, the pump had nearly emptied the bilge (as much as it could), and my wife had shut it down. I started the boat, and backed it out, and put it on the trailer.

Now I am at home, trying to figure out what happened. I don't think there are too many leak opportunities; In my mind the possibilities are: 1) Drive shaft, 2) Rudder shaft, 3) Coolant system, 4) Hull breach, and perhaps the 5) Exhaust to transom interface.

1) Drive shaft: I have a drip less seal on my driveshaft, which appears to be in good working order. I checked the hose clamps, they seem tight. As the seal was installed by a previous owner, I am not familiar with how these drip less things work, and what their failure mechanisms are.

2) Rudder shaft: This is what I suspect the most. I have the early style, with no O rings. My rudder shaft has a little bit of free play in the rudder shaft, and when I wiggled it, drops of water spilled out. So I just removed the steering arm, and removed the gland/retaining nut, and removed the rudder. The gland nut is full of a soft waxy substance white in color. It is probably the wax rope that is old and highly compressed, as it has completely mushed into a continuous su8bstance, that I suspect does not put enough tension against the shaft to seal anymore.

I am curious what those of you who have disassembled your shaft seals have found in the gland nut, and if replacement of the seal has successfully dried up your bilge? Also, where does one find new wax rope?

3) Coolant system: I did not notice any glaring leaks during the event, but I didn't look hard or long. I plan to check all of the clamps. I ran the engine on the hose hours before I put it in the lake, so I really wouldn't expect this to be the root cause, but I plan to try and validate this. Engine temps where normal during the event, and while returning ot the beach.

4) Hull breach: also unlikely, as the hull has not toughed anything but water and the trailer since I last used the boat.

5) Exhaust to transom interface: I was surprised to see water on the oubd portion of the floor, as the water path from the bilge should not be through all of the floatation foam under the floor. I would have expected the bilge to overfill from the center of the boat. I don't get it, unless perhaps my exhaust is leaking at the transom? I supposes I should take the supertrapps off and attempt to re-seal.

I would really appreciate any feedback you might have, especially if you have ever had a similar experience, or you have any ideas or recommendations on how to troubleshoot or solve.

Thanks in advance,

[Loadup]

It's a horse of a different color but a buddy of mine has a Moomba v drive and we noticed his bilge pump working overtime, when he looked at engine it was purdy deep. We found the water coming in through the exhaust at transom. The clamp had come off connecting the hose at transom.

[foxriverat]

Did you try filling boat with water through engine compartment while its on the trailer. Then examine under boat for leaks.

[Salty87]

boat filled up when engine was running but the pump caught up once engine was off?...not sure if engine was off while you switched riders.

[chrisk]

The exact same thing happened to me earlier this year... however, I doubt it was caused by the same problem you're experiencing.

Mine was caused because the previous owner had taken out one of the frost caps on the side of the engine block and replaced it with an expansion plug. He did this for some winterizing function but anyways, over the off-season the plug had lost a good seal or something. Then, when we put the boat in the water and ran it for a while it was running great, until I opened it up a little bit, the engine heated up, the thermostat opened up and started letting water through the engine block. All the water pressure running through the block blew out the expansion plug in the side of the engine and started pouring water inside the bilge.. didn't notice it until water started coming through the floor near the doghouse. The caps are about 2 inches in diameter.. but like I said, I doubt you have the same freak-problem I had.

[Okie Boarder]

The water coming up to the one side in the back could have been due to the stringer design. On mine and most I've seen apart there are limber holes where the stringers attach to the transom and it could have worked over there from the bilge.

[tomelenbaas]

Seems like way too much water for either the prop shaft or rudder shaft. Even if you had a near-total failure of the one of those seals it seems like the bilge pump should have been able to keep pace. How long had you been in the water before noticing the water intrusion?

If you were running the boat on the hose just before the trip, Occam's Razor says that's the most likely source of the problem. Do you disconnect the intake hose at the hull fitting, or do you have a hose adapter? One other possibility that you didn't mention is if someone pulled the transom drain plug. I rarely remove it, but I'm always afraid that some a..hole will think it's funny to pull the plug when I'm stopped somewhere. Did you check for that? If all else fails, return to the lake and leave the boat on the trailer while you run the engine and look for the source of the leak. With taking on that much water the source should be very visible.

Let us know what you ultimately find to be the culprit. I frequently leave my boat in a slip overnight and one of my biggest fears is seeing it nose-up the next morning.

[rludtke]

Salty, I can't remember for sure if my engine was running when we noticed the wet floot, but I think it was.

This supports tomelenbaas's theory, that I may have failed to fully restore the coolant system after I disconnected the garden hose, and that the boat was only leaking when the engine was running.

I agree tomelenbaas, the rudder log should not be able to generate a large source of water. I will double check my inlet hose as you suggest. I remove the coolant inlet hose from the hull pickup, and connect it to a garden hose adapter. I may have failed to retighten the hose after I removed the adapter (I would feel really stupid (and yet relieved) if that turns out to be the case).

Before this event, I always had some water present in the bilge (hence the reason why I had the bilge pump running), and I have long suspected the rudder log, but hadn't gotten around to checking it out. It would acrue the water only when driven, but not when parked, as there would be little to no water collected when docked or moored overnight. Before I removed my rudder, I noted that there was movement (free play) in the rudder shaft. After removing, I can see that the seal is very compressed into the gland nut. My guess is that the seal is done. I plan to replace the seal, as soon as I can find a replacement. I think that the rudder log is sealed with wax rope? Does anybody know for sure? Where do I find the replacement seal, whatever it is?

My transom drain is actually fiberglassed closed at the moment, as the swaged pipe for the drain was leaking. I was unable to re-swage a new one and make it seal because of the quality of the hole, it was no longer the correct size or shape. so I filled the hole with fiberglass millfiber and cabosil, with the intent of re-drilling a new hole. But I have not gotten around to purchasing the new drain hardware. Currently I use the midship drain, which was installed.

Okie, your description of limber holes at the transom make me feel much better. I was worried that the water should not have surfaced at the perimeter of the floor. My daughter was standing in that area, and that was the way the boat was leaning. I suppose that the water could transfer from the center bilge through the main stringer to the right hand side of the boat through those limber holes.

So I will take a fresh look as soon as I can to check these things out.

Thanks guys,

[tomelenbaas]

Rick -

If you're not taking on water when the boat is parked, then the rudder and/or prop shafts are unlikely sources. A leak at either of those points should not be dependent on the engine running. Same would be true with the exhaust/transom interface. If it only happens when the engine is running, then it seems that a leak somewhere in the circulation system is the most likely suspect. What about your large exhaust hoses? Maybe one of them has a hole and a portion of your exhaust water is leaking back into the boat.

Keep us posted.

Tom

[haugy]

If you didn't reconnect the hose properly for cooling, you'd know it real quick from overheating.

My guess is a bad hose either cracking or leaking at the connection point. That much water is ALOT. It's hard to take that much on in a short period of time unless you are missing a plug, or have a hose full pumping water in there.

Check all hose clamps for good snug fits. Hose clamps are suprisingly weak and can break a tooth on them. You know the little notches in a hose clamp? Well one of those bars (notches) can break, allowing the clamp to open up to the next notch. While it may not seem like much, over time it can allow the hose to wiggle enough to create a leak. So check your hose clamps, but don't overtighten.

But the critical detail you've left out is time. How long were you running before it got to the point you noticed? And it was up above the carpet in the rear?

Now, when you got it almost completely pumped out, started it and put it on the trailer, did it take on alot of water again? Or no change?

I've seen driveshaft seals leak enough to fill a boat in about 20 minutes while underway. So it you were out for a while before noticing, don't count out the slow leaks yet. You need to put it in the water when it's dry, have someone drive you around the marina while you look for leaks. Keep the boat trailer in the water in case you need an emergency pull out.

[jet]

As soon as you got her on the trailer you should of kept her running and looed for the source. Now you will just be guessing. It can either come from the engine cooling system (water pump, hose,eng, ballast) or from a boat hull leak (exhaust, bolts anything that pokes thru the hull. Hook the water hose up to her and try it again. If that doesnt leak anywhere start looking at the hull places. Good luck man. Jet

[Dtha]

Had you been running your pump at all during the day? My comp takes on a bit of water as well, and I just figure it as the cheap plug from walmart I use, or from the several holes I drilled in the transom for my lights, water isn't all that bad, the pump takes care of it instantly.

Your water on the floor problem might be very elementary. Mine does the same thing. Pick up the middle section of the rear seat, just behind the driveshaft to see the removeable floorboard. Does it has a hole cut in it like mine does? If so, I can GUARANTEE, it is just the water splashing through that hole and running up the side of the boat on the carpet, because I watched my boat do this first hand when I was testing any severe leaks from the transom light install.

When you slowdown, any water in the bilge will rush to the back and splash through the hole, and will rush forward as the boat settles over the carpet, then disipate back into the bilge. I just use it as a good "Hey turn the bilge on dummy" reminder incase I forget.

[rludtke]

I took today off from work to try and fix the boat for the week end.

In order to remove my rudder, I had to shift my boat over to the left side of my trailer, as there is trailer prop cage structure on the centerline that prevented the rudder from dropping free. While under the boat, I noticed droplets forming beneath the boat about 3/4" forward of the stern, directly under the exhaust pipe outlet, in an area of the boat normally covered by the righthand trailer bunk. Wiping the droplets, I could see a brown colored crack, about 3" long, parallelling the transom. The water drops would return quickly, so to explore further, I removed the righthand Super Trapp and its attach flange. Water started running from the lower screws as soon as I removed them, and sped up as I removed the flange and sealant. Most of the sealant pulled off smoothly and cleanly from the boat, indicating a faulty seal.

To help the water drain, I drilled the lowest screw hole up to 3/8" in size, and a considerable amount of water drained out. I am allowing it to dry out now.

I am planning to fill all of the Supertrapp screw holes in the transom with cabosil, do a fiberglass surface repair of the crack, and remount and reseal the Supertrapp and exhuast.

I took a good look at the structure at the stern area. There are no limbers cut through the main stringers anywhere, including at the transom intersection. This would suggest that the boat has three seprate chambers under the floor. Left, Right, and Center. I saw water above the floor on the right side only, near the gunnel. The bilge (Center chamber) was aproximently 3/4 full at that time. If my right hand side exhaust allowed water to leak into the Right hand chamber, which it may have, I don't understand how that caused the bilge to fill. I would like all of the water from the three chambers to drain to the bilge, but I can not find the water path in my boat to allow water to do so. I suspect that I had water trapped in the Right hand chamber of the boat. If I had never moved the boat to the side of the trailer, I may never had noticed.

But, this may not completely solve my problem, as it doesn't make sense to me why the bilge was so full. I must still have a seperate leak in the Center chamber?

I will accomplish the repair, and re-assemble the rudder, then take the boat to the lake to do some testing.

Can anyone with first hand experience with the stringer replacement of a 1987 Comp describe the stringer design and the factory intended water path to the bilge? It does not look to me like the designers ever thought water would enter the left or right chambers, and so they did not provide measures to allow it to drain.

I don't understand the failure mode for this crack either. I suspect it has been there a while. I do not see anything like it on the left side.

[CincyLaunch]

My boat earlier this season filled up with water. It was due to the dealership cross-threading the quick disconnect on the ballast bag. (Don't know if you checked those.) I fixed it by taking some PVC cement the kind with the purple primer and just glued the connecter to the bag. Hope this helps.

[rludtke]

I completed the fiberglass repairs this weekend (filled the worn Supertrapp screw holes, and repaired a small crack under the bottom of the boat very close to the transom). and replaced and re-sealed the supertrapps. I also increased the tension preload on the dripless seal.

I launched the boat in a nearby lake today without the back seat, engine cover, or aft floorboard removed. Drove around (no wake speeds only, as the lake was not open for powerboats yet) and inspected everything that could possibly leak. My bilge was nearly dry upon launching (It was dry, until the steep launch caused water from the fwd bilge to leak aft, creating a small pool under the drive shaft), I did not experience any leaks, or change the amount of water in the bilge.

Returned home to reassemble the boat, load gear, eat lunch, and load the family. Back on the water and hard at play, the auto-bilge kicked on from time to time, and between riders, my peeks under the engine cover would reveal some water sometimes, and no water other times. I don't know where this water comes from, but it would seem that the auto-bilge can easily manage it.

Therefore, I am going to consider this issue resolved.

I had hoped to get all three days of this weekend on the water, but one day is better than none! Summer isn't over hear in the Pacific Northwest (in-fact, it appears that it is just begining. The forecast for next week and beyond is for a strech of the hottest temps yet we'ved had yet this year!). So perhaps we'll get out next weekend too.

[DAFF]

Have you tried to run the boat onland hooked up to a garden hose at the strainer??? Make sure the connection is water tight and look for water entering the bilge area. This test will eliminate the water entering from the engine side and then you can look more in detail for underside leaks.

Ever thought about the skegs on the bottom side of the hull?? You said something about beaching the boat, and got me wondering if the seal there could be the culprit. A tube of 5200 will go a long way......

[wotan2525]

I just assumed everyone with old-ish boats was OK with them leaking a little bit. My auto bilge kicks on probably every 20 minutes for a minute or so. I'm 90% sure it's the rudder seal, but it could be a million tiny places, too. I've just learned to live with it.

[rludtke]

Have you tried to run the boat onland hooked up to a garden hose at the strainer??? Make sure the connection is water tight and look for water entering the bilge area. This test will eliminate the water entering from the engine side and then you can look more in detail for underside leaks.

Ever thought about the skegs on the bottom side of the hull?? You said something about beaching the boat, and got me wondering if the seal there could be the culprit. A tube of 5200 will go a long way......

Yes I have Daff, with no issues noted. So I put the boat into the water to inspect the hull while the boat was in gear. Still no leaks. But excersizing the boat with riders on skiis, booards, and tubes is a little different than ideling around the lake. Some of my water could be tracked in by wet people, but some is also from a yet to be determined leak resulting from driving the boat hard.

You bring up a good point about the skegs. I only beach in sand, and only when the lake shore is steep. I am pretty sure that the only part of the boat contacting the beach is the deep keel of the bow.


I just assumed everyone with old-ish boats was OK with them leaking a little bit. My auto bilge kicks on probably every 20 minutes for a minute or so. I'm 90% sure it's the rudder seal, but it could be a million tiny places, too. I've just learned to live with it.
I too suspect my rudder seal. I tightened my shaft log as much as I could, but I think I should replace the packing to see if my leak improves. I think i've reduced the water down to an "I can live with it" amount.

[oward1202]

Rick, my 85 comp was leaking as well all last year(which was my first year with the boat). I also found that it was the SuperTrapps. I did the same repair that you made and I felt alot better about the boat this year. I left the boat on the water overnight last year while we stayed on a houseboat, I set my alarm to wake me up every 3 hours to go out and run the bilge. That will kill the fun of staying on the lake. Glad you got your problem resolved and are able to be back out enjoying your boat. Have fun.