1991 Rudder Repair

[inair]

Hi all,

I did a search to find all the rudder removal pics and info I could. Basically what I thought I understood was that to remove the rudder, it needed to be unbolted and the cotter key removed, then the arm assembly could be pulled off and the rudder would drop out. After inspection, what it looks like is that the round top (with the keyed area) is a bigger diamiter than the hole in the arm? I am attempting to include a pic here for support.

Is it possible that Supra used different designs for these? Has any one seen this before? Am I just not seeing it right?


http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb375/kennash737/DSC_0222.jpg

[mr.jrc]

You will need to remove the bolt all the way... there is a notch in the shaft for the bolt. Also there should be o-ring's in the body of the mount, which might make it slow to come out but some pursuasion should get it out. (meaning use a poly/dead-blow mallet).

[inair]

Ok, so that stud that is sticking out needs to be removed? When I took it all apart I thought there would be a gap on the oposite end from the arm that the bolt would clamp tight. I don't see that now but I will remove that bolt and see how it goes. Thanks for the reply and here I go!

[lively]

Second that removal of the bolt , and if it still don't pop loose grab the torch and heat and tap method . Takes bout 3 licks did mine 3 days ago the same way . Good luck

[inair]

Sounds good lively. I saw a pic of yours on another thread. It looks the same as mine. When the temp comes up abit latter I will take another run at it. Thanks for the input and I will keep you posted!

[lively]

mine has a split fork so i just tapped a standard screwdriver and pry it a litttle bit open , this made the rudder come loose and drop down , be sure before you get to whacking on that stud that the nut is on it and you use wood or brass hammer , also ive used heat and candle wax ... ( sounds crazy) but it works on rusted and locked up nuts .. good luck

[zwhitston]

The rudders can be "entertaining" to make drop. It has taken me 30 minutes of banging on punch with a sledge to make one drop! And sometimes they fall right out.

[sybrmike]

I don't think you're gonna get that stud out with the tiller arm still on the shaft. My original looked similar as your picture. The hole for the stud was located such that the O.D. of the stud projected slightly into the bore of the tiller arm. The all-thread stud had a crescent ground out on one side in the middle so that when the stud was centered and rotated just right, the bore was clear for the rudder shaft to pass through. Once the tiller arm was in place on the rudder shaft, tightening the stud pulled the full O.D. threaded section into the bore for an interference fit with a notch on the rudder shaft locking it all in place.

Try loosening the stud (lots of PB Blaster), put a nut on each end, and knock it back and forth in the tiller arm to work it loose. You may find it'll only go 3/8" or so either direction before the threaded section starts to bind which will help find the center of the clearanced section. Once the stud is "centered", slowly rotate it while tapping down on the rudder. When the clearanced section of the stud is properly oriented, the rudder shaft should tap through.

Be careful hitting the top of the rudder shaft. Evidently while fighting this, I had slightly mushroomed the top of my rudder shaft & it wouldn't pass through the tiller arm. I got the tiller arm completely loose where it would spin 360 on the rudder shaft but wouldn't lift completely off. I finally said "F it" and cut the shaft. Only after it was out in pieces did I see I could have ground a small chamfer on the top O.D. of the shaft to get it to pass through. Turned out my shaft was severely worn and needed a new rudder anyway. Good luck.

[lively]

go with what sybrmike said lol ... cause mine is different

[inair]

Ok,

Got it all apart. The rudder arm isn't split so I didn't need to take the stud out. I just used a puller and it came out easily. But now I have more questions.
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb375/kennash737/DSC_0216_002SupraRudderpic.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb375/kennash737/DSC_0217_001SupraRudderpic.jpg

From other posts I was expecting some things I don't see. First I don't see a grease fitting anywhere and there isn't any old patroleum residue anywhere. Could just be old and washed away but usually there is some residue.
Next question is the hollow nut. It seems like something must have been in there origionaly. Maybe some kind of packing? The thing was taking on alot of water there and there doesn't seem to be any kind of seal?
Third question is the shaft wear. What do you all think of the amount of wear going on there. It doesn't seem like that much wear for a brass part but again there doe'snt seem to be any lube, bearing or bushing. Is this normal.

Thanks so much for all your comments and help!

[inair]

Yah, sybrmike

That stud is a through stud that is machined to the inside of the hole in the arm. When you tighten the nut on the outside it pulls against the rudder shaft to help keep it in place? Good thing I didn't beat on it too much!! LOL I have a bunch of weird pullers from a former life and it came off without any fuss once I got one on it with a good fit.

I'm new to boat repair and even when its all apart it doesn't make any sense :D

[sybrmike]

Glad you got it off. Yes, you've got an "old style" rudder & should have packing around the shaft under the hollow nut. I don't know what size it takes since I replaced mine with a grease & o-ring unit, but check with the guys at skidim & they'll know. Lucky you - the shaft doesn't look too worn at all.

Boat repair is kinda like working on a fine european automobile - pretty much the same as a domestic car, just occasional weird engineering & some of the parts are more expensive...

[mr.jrc]

interesting... without more pics, looks like you a stuffing box type rudder seal... just like the prop shaft penetration. A waxed impregnated packing rope seals the shaft. Check this out, it is a good desc. on fixing your leak properly:
http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/89-and-earlier-malibu-rudder-rebuild-r22

[inair]

Hey that is a great article mr.jrc

I don't think Im going to take the flanges off but the rest is very close to what I have going on. Called Skidim today and have packing on the way. Thanks everyone for the input and inspiration. Will post more photos as it comes together.