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Thanks for making my point Ngavdba, I would never recommend a newbie doing what is being suggested. As I said earlier, the chance of making a mistake is huge.
I would rather someone take a little extra time and sweat to do it a little at a time, and to learn while they do it, versus going for the gold on their first try.
I'm working on this again and working by hand. I couldn't find the other thread where we were talking about using an air sander, but wanted to post here. Would something like this work well to do the wet sanding with?
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-too...der-90115.html
Disregard that link. I looked a little closer at the specs and it exceeds the cfm output of my compressor. I talked with a local paint and body supplier at lunch and ended up getting an Ingersoll Rand DA sander like this one.
http://www.northerntool.com/images/p...1540328_lg.gif
I got a cushion type pad and the film type sanding discs in some different grits. I'm going to give that a shot and see how it does.
I'm assuming that using the DA I will want to use fairly light pressure?
Looks nice. And yes on the light pressure. In fact, the orbital part won't work right with pressure that's too heavy.
I'd go for a palm sander, easier to get into some of the spots and roll with the contours of the hull. It won't have the big handle on it.
haugy, I can see where the handle might be a little cumbersome.
I started using it last night and I was really surprised it didn't do better. It seems like even the 600 grit disks don't take off enough of the oxidation. It seems like I would need to work a 12" square area for 20 minutes just for it to come off. If I go back to the block and paper at 800 grit, it seems to take off more material than the 600 grit disks. Does that seem odd to anybody?
By the way, did some stripe removal on the other side and this gives you an idea of what the oxidation looks like.
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/...pseab6c161.jpg
That does seem odd. Are you pressing too hard perhaps?
I've tried different pressures and it doesn't seem to make a difference. I went back to the shop I got the materials from and got one sheet of 400 grit. I finally got a chance to play with that a little bit last night. It appears to take off the general oxidation towards the top quite well. It still doesn't seem like it is aggressive enough to get the material down well enough around where the stripes were. I'm thinking maybe I need to use some 600 with a block and hand sand those areas. For those that have used an air sander, how long should you have to focus on a small area (12" x 12") before the surface was what it needed to be? Maybe I'm just not taking enough time?
With 600 or 400 grit you shouldn't have any problems. But remember as you use that type of grit, you're really rubbing the gelcoat. So it will look white after sanding. So you may essentially be getting the white oxidation off, but left with a white sanded finish and you may think it's still oxidation.
I have only used 600 grit once on a boat, and I didn't have to work it too hard. There is a point where it's so coarse that you really have to work it to get the affect since only about 65% is really rubbing at one time due to the depth of grain. The finer the sandpaper, the more contact it makes which can yield a faster sanded finish, but it may not be deep enough.
A power sander at 600 grit, holy cow, that should almost be damaging if you're in one area for about 20 minutes.
It seems like the 400 with the sander over the bulk of the area is just a quick pass and the oxidation is off. I'm paying attention to the color of the water, mostly. I can see the water change from white to blue. Down where the stripe was is where my biggest problem is. I'm still seeing a lot of discoloration and very distinctly seeing the difference between where the stripe was and the surface that has been exposed. I'm trying to tone that down as much as I can.
Here's a few progress pictures. The first picture is the side that has only had the stripe removed and no wet sanding. The second picture shows the progress on the side I'm working on. The haze line you can see is where the last stage of sanding was completed and compounded up to.
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/...ps31407cb9.jpg
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/...ps53da2be0.jpg
That's the best imitation of a mirror I've seen in a while. Gorgeous work!
Did you settle on a grit, pressure, and style of wet sanding?
It's amazing how much a picture makes it look spectacularly reflective. Very slight imperfections can be seen in person, but not in the picture.
Yeah, I settled in on the following:
600 grit with a block, hand wetsanding fairly aggressively near the stripe...I'm working that area from the bottom of the blue to about 2" above the stripe.
Then I am using the air sander and wetsanding with 600-800-1000-1200. Typically, I'm using a light to medium pressure and letting the machine and disc do the work in about a 3-4' section until that disc is no longer cutting much. This also gives me a chance to switch to another task in the progression so the compressor can catch up. I only have a 2/6 hp 33 gallon compressor, so it has to work a bit to keep up with the sander.
I noticed some curly scratches when I compounded at this stage and didn't seem to have luck getting them out real easy with the air sander. I went back and tried it by hand with light pressure and found a method that seems to work, using 800-1000-2000.
Then the compound, polish and wax.
Okie,
I did the bottom hull with a pneumatic this past week. I went like you, 600 hand, 800, 1000, 1500, 3000 with the sander. I will say the 3000 allowed me to skip heavy compounding and go straight to Finesse it to finish it out. Looks great. Once I used finesse it, then I used Collinite wax and was done.
I'm very pleased.
Haugy, what are your plans for wet sanding on that comp of yours?
I've been eyeing the bottom on mine, while I've been working on it. That will be next. Did you go around the areas it makes contact with the trailer or lift it up somehow? Did you jusy lay under the boat or use a creeper? How much of an area are you finding you can cover before the sanding disks are worn and what discs are you using?
Well the owner is being a wimp and won't deliver it. Friggin yanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetlink
On the bow I used a jack and a block of wood right under the lower bow eye, using the metal eye as my lifting point. That allowed me to lift the bow enough to remove the padding on the bow riser.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okie Boarder
For the back I'll be using an engine hoist (cherry picker). Mine is very big......hee hee..... so I can lift the boat enough to put it on blocks. I've got big pieces of 6x6 scrap wood that I will lay across the two side bunks on each side. Perpendicular to the run of the bunks. I'll put 3 in place on one side. Sand and wax those areas, move the 6x6s to get under them as well, and then switch sides. I haven't done it yet as I got all the way to the skeggs and stopped. I'll probably finish it out later in the fall. But the bow area is bright white now.
I used 3m pads. For the hand stuff I just used good ole 3M black sandpaper you can find at any automotive place. But for the 1000,1500, etc I had to go with 3M Trizect pads. They are the only ones that have that grit range, and hook and loop fasteners so when wet they won't come off. BE WARNED: They are expensive as hell. Each pad was about $3. And the 3000 grit pads are $10 each. A heads up, the pads feel like toilet paper. They are super smooth and soft. You wouldn't think they could cut anything, but they actually work very well.
I used 8 1000 grit pads to do the lower sides (under the colored gel-coat) and the bottom of the boat to the skeggs. Probably could have used 10 and it would have been better. I bought 2 of the 3000 grit and they seemed to do well, but that was stretching it. 3 probably would have sufficed. All in all I think I had about $130 in sandpaper. OUCH. But the benefit of knocking one grit range out each night was worth it. I would go out with 1000 grit, and an hour and a half later I was done. Next night, 1500. To get that done in that time frame was worth it.
With the trizect pad I learned that it's good to keep the pad clean, but not the boat as much. Allowing some of the grit to work with the pad helped it cut. So I would hose the area I was about to work, and then wouldn't hose it again unless I was done working it. I kept the pad pretty clean though, rinsing after a couple of minutes or 2 sq/ft of work.
I did try an experiment just to see how it would do. In the lower part of the keel I went from 1000 grit to 3000 grit to see how it would do. It's very white, but not near as glossy as the rest. I would make sure to put some grits in between and not short-cut it if you want high-gloss. It will work for the rest of the season, but I will be going back and redoing it later with 1500+ grit and finishing it out again.
With the air sander you don't need a lot of speed, most of the time I had it so it would slowly turn if I just held it to the side. No pressure, just placed on the side of the boat. Then when I put pressure on, it wasn't spinning just orbiting. Higher speed will eat your pad up.
I didn't use a creeper as I needed to be able to maintain constant pressure and at odd angles. Having wheels under me would have just kept pushing me away from the boat. When I got up high on the front I raised up the boat so I could sit indian style under the boat. When I worked my way back I lowered it so when I was on my back I could easily reach the hull without overextending my arms.
I'll get pics this weekend as I'm taking it out to WakeFest this weekend. It is a great improvement over how it's looked since I got it.
Sounds like you disks are lasting a little longer than mine. I'm buying mine from a local paint and body supply shop in my town. They are a green color disk with the velcro backing. He breaks up 100 packs into 10 packs and they sell for $6.99-$9.49. It seems one disk can let me do about 2' of area lengthwise on the blue before it starts not cutting real well. I went through nearly 30 of the 600 grit already for one side of the boat.
Interesting that you are finding not staying as wet/rinsing is working good on the surface. I've been using one of those quart sized pump sprayers and I mist, then start sanding. As it seems to dry a bit I partially rinse and wet a little. I might have to try seeing if rinsing the disc, not the boat works well.
Seems I have my speed a little higher than yours. Mine does spin slightly along with orbiting.
Looking forward to seeing pics.
I'm making progress. I got the air sander work completed on the one side last night and have about 1/3 of that side to finish with the hand process. Then 2/3 of the boat still needs compounding, polish and wax. I'm hoping to at least get the sanding done tonight and possibly the whole thing. I took a couple pictures of the sanding discs I'm using for reference.
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/...psdea0e1b7.jpg
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/...psb86c24c5.jpg
Here's the latest...one side done.
So I figured a lot of you that have older boats would probably appreciate this. When we first got our boat it was oxidized pretty bad. I wet sanded with 100 grit, compounded and polished. After a couple years, the oxidation started coming back. Last year I decided I was going to figure out what was going to take it away for good. In addition, I decided to remove the old stripe that was cracking and fading. Here's some pictures of one side's progress and completion, along with the other side as a comparison to how bad it had gotten.
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/...psc562975c.jpg
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/...psa4564b92.jpg
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/...psa207e9ce.jpg
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0e97b5da.jpg
Dang Okie! I could shave in that mirror. I know you have to be thrilled (and tired and sore). So the first time you just wet-sanded with 100 grit and then compounded? What's going to make this last longer? From my understanding the successfully finer grits smooth out the damage from the rougher grits. Would that make it last longer?
It would of been 1000grit. 100grit would of sanded through the gel and glass.
Looks great Okie! Yeah, he meant 1000 grit. He did that when he first bought the boat.
What did you use to compound and polish?
Yeah, the first time was 1000 grit, compound and polish. I think I did not actually get rid of the oxidation last time and it came back to the surface...that's why I think this time will last longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanTn
haugy,
3M Super Duty Compound with a wool pad and 3M Finesse-It with a foam pad.
What a difference a zero can make! Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.
Yup...sorry for the confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanTn
So here's an update on Okie's boat and progress made on the port side of the boat. I've gotten the whole side free of oxidation. I actually went down as low as 500 wet sand and haven't had any problems yet. I'm trying like hell to blend the colors where the stripe decals were and so far have been successful. The back 60% or so of the boat has been full sanded 500/600/800/1000/1200 and then compounded/polished (3M Super Duty, 3M Rubbing, 3M Finesse It, 3M Machine Polish, Babes Boat Bright wax). you can see from the photos I've been able to accomplish the mirror like shine that Okie got on the other side. Notice the reflection of spare tire and Barbie jeep on the back half : )
For reference, here is what it looked like when I picked it up.
The 3M eraser wheel is a life saver for that job. Mine barely even wore down. I'm considering whether or not I should offer it up for a few bucks or keep it should I need it for something in the future?
Looks so good! I'm so glad to see you have it looking so good and she is in a good home.
Looking great! It's great to see a good boat going to a good home.
Is the photo looking down the side showing some missing gel? What's the story behind that?
I'd keep the 3M Eraser, you never know when it'll come in handy.
Yes it is. I had noticed some cracking along that area and realized it seemed like there was a void behind the gel. It was recommended that I grind away the gel and fill it on the whole void area, which is what you see there.