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put a couple hours on the gates today. I can't be happier. Takes 20 seconds to switch sides with my strap system on the top. running full 750 on the surf side. half 750 on none surf side, half 1100 on front and wake plate up. No lean. The boat doesn't turn as sharp against the gate but it does turn.
I have about a dozen runs on it with all different weights and conditions. Everytime I go out I cant believe how well it works. I'm now running 750 on the wake with 350 on the other, nothing up front, wakeplate at half and @ 9.5mph.Thats 1800 lbs less and 1.5mph less with no lean! Im
using allot less fuel and getting a comparable wake. I'm finding that with less people in the boat I adjust the gate angle in a little and with more I adjust it out. Completely Awesome in my book. I can't believe there isn't more DIY off these things. I've sold two of my bags since starting to use it and am contemplating if I need to up grade my pumps still since Im only filling up two bags now.
That is awesome. Very impressing engineering.
When you get a chance, show us some pics of it in action now that you have the setup figured out.
I've been getting a lot of interest in the gates recently. I made a video for someone and figured that I would add it here for those interested. If you interested in more info feel free to PM me. My Youtube channel has some other videos of them in action but I keep running out of memory or batteries when I take my GoPro out on the board with me. Thanks for watching.
http://youtu.be/MZ1n6Ih8W0o
That looks awesome! Where did you get that locking ram/actuator/hinge thing?
+ 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by CornRickey
Where did you source this?
local hardware store. Rockler has them also.
Tell me what they're called then. I am really good at searching for stuff, but not sure what keywords to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by CornRickey
I get a few things that seem similar when I look for a "Folding Brace". But no ringers...
EDIT: Found it. "stainless folding bracket". "Stainless" was the magic word!
http://www.zorotools.com/g/00063830/...FWxo7AodUQoA7A
that's it but mine aren't stainless and cost 12 bucks each.
Spent the day on Lake Washington yesterday and put a bunch of time on the gates. Took the liberty of taking a little video.
http://youtu.be/MVTyaLKVuRA
It's kinda hard to tell what impact the gate is having, but the wake looks good and your surfing skills do too. Thanks for sharing.
it's tough to show but I can guarantee you I wouldn't be out there with out it. it doesn't take much to make it happen. I'm 230lbs and surfing with only 750 on one side and maybe 350 on the other while holding a camera and taping. there's allot of push and forgiveness while I'm tapping.
awesome work!!!! the only question I have is about the using less weight. I would think if you kept your original sac weight set up but just centered everything out you would have a bigger wave yet. I did a decent job of reading thru the thread and dint really catch why you dropped the extra weight besides you dint need it anymore. curious if the wave was just big enough for you or junked out with the extra weight?
I've been asked to show some pictures of a comparable between no gates and gates. Its easier to make a video so here it is. Feel free to PM me is interested.
http://youtu.be/oCINO6POuK8
Your right. Once you get the weight ratio figured out you add equal amounts to both sides then you have to add weight to the front. This goes ok for a extra 500 then you have to decrease the ratio (less weight on the gate side) due to the gate being too far in the water and lot effecting the wake enough. I've been running the weight I've been posting because I keeps the floor clear of bags. If I only have two people in the boat its a little tough for me to surf and do anything but my kids do fine. A adult or two added makes things just fine for me. I'm 230lbs. Thanks for asking. Hope that helped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse
Cool video. Someday when i have a V-drive, I'll likely do a surf gate install. But with a DD, it just doesn't seem like it's all that realistic since I don't have all the compartments for bags that v-drives have.Quote:
Originally Posted by CornRickey
well I guess it's just how you look at it. if you are loading your dd to surf, you can decrease the weight significantly with the gates and get the same results.
I wonder what I could pull off. As it is, I can get a surfable wave with the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by CornRickey
- 250 under rear seat
- 370 on surf side floor beside doghouse
- 750 on top of the 370 bag, as far back into the back seat as possible
- Passengers sitting middle/rear and observer seat.
- No bow weight, wake plate 3/4" down
- I have another little 150 bag I can throw wherever, but we haven't played with it too much.
So, with that setup, we're certainly listing. We run water to the rubrail to the first rear cleat when underway and also are about 4 to 6" below the rub rail at the rear corner at rest.
Our floor space then is most of what's in front of the observer seat, the floor on the non-surf side beside the doghouse, and a little spot of floor behind the doghouse (back/middle).
I'm wondering what a surfgate change would really look like. if anything I'd imagine it'd mean I could move the 370 to the non-surf side which would mean that all the floor on either side of the doghouse would then be gone, but the boat wouldn't be listing that much. DEFINITELY a trade off when I'm working with a DD. Of course I'd like to run less listed, but I'm not excited about giving up any more of my already limited space...
Thoughts? I'm totally open to discussion/suggestions from other boat owners...
well. displacement is displacement and displacement creates the wave. The lean creates the delay in convergence on the side that is high ( non surf side). The gates eliminate the need for the lean. that being said there is a need for some adding or subtracting of lean to adjust the depth of the gate in the water as it relates to how far the whole back of the boat is sitting in the water. In other words, since the height is the gate isn't adjustable, when you weight the boat heavily in the back evenly, the gate allows to much water to flow over its top so a decrease in water to the gate side is needed to compensate.
As for your boat specifically, I don't know for sure but physics don't change and I couldn't imagine it would not help. I ran a 750 surf side rear locker, 750 surf side floor and 1100 in front before to get a wake I could surf with little issues. Now I run 750 surf side rear locker and 350 noon surf side rear with the gate. nothing up front. I can get a bigger wake by adding 400 on the surface for and 600 in front but don't need it and it multiplies the time to switch sides by 10. I also have decreased my speed by 1.2mph and save noticeable gas.
You set up is similar to mine prior to gates.I was to throw a starting point at it is say leave the under seat weight. put the 750 on the floor between the rear seat and dog house, use your little bag to fine tune back and forth on t the rear seat till you get it figured out then place the 750 bag on thefloorin to replicate it. I'm surprised you don't use weight up front. You'll probably need to use the plate or the small bag to lengthen the pocket when you get to that pointQuote:
Originally Posted by trayson
Okay, I guess I won't give up hope just yet. I mean, I suppose even if I used ALL of my same weight configured differently but was able to ride more level with a good pocket that it'd probably be worth it. Okay, I won't rule out a gate.
I'm getting closer to completing my custom swim platform so I won't have that digging into my wave. Might be worth adding a gate at some point to that... Who knows, it might make it easier to justify keeping my DD for longer (as a V-drive would be doubling my investment minimum!)
I love watching the builds and to see people problem solving and stuff.
I have a few ideas brewing in my Mellon for a surf gate. When I start I will share all ideas as I brig them to fruition.
Well, working at a boat dealer, I would hope yours would involve a Lenco trim tab actuator! I've seen some nice install write ups using those.Quote:
Originally Posted by villain
unless you can get it to not effect the surf wave, the actuators are irrelevant. I think the only way is to raise the platform considerably. I wasnt willing to do that. I usually adjust the angles of mine a couple times in a day as loads change. A actuator isn't indexed so you would start over each time you retracted it to switch sides. seems like more of a pain than its worth.
A large portion of your weight is for lean. You could loose considerable weight. I decreased by almost 1500lbs and dropped over 1mph, that's considerable when you're talking 10mph. About 300rpm under load. That's allot of gasQuote:
Originally Posted by trayson
To the o.p, are you still running this set up or have you moved to something else? If still using it, are you still just keeping one attached at a time?
I responded to your PM. I'm running one at a time when surfing. I see no other way unless I remount my swim step higher which isn't going to happen. I leave them both on when doing everything else when I need the room in the boat. Still love them and have not seen a better and safer option....
I thought about going with surfgates. But I'm very happy with my NSS style blades. It's pretty awesome to be able to have them not stick out when they're retracted. No need to take them off (they're permenently mounted anyway). 5 to 10 second switchover from side to side or to adjust the wave a little.
Awesome yours is working well.
There's no doubt about it...... There's many ways to skin a cat. It comes down to how much time is spent in r&d and advancing something until it works, it's tough to switch to something different and lose all of that time
The actuators are called "Drop Leaf Table Braces" just fyi. Home depot and Lowes do not carry them in my area. I made a one piece fixed position gate for my 2008 Launch 22SSV. I will try it this weekend.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...6fce98cbeb.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...31ddede67b.jpg
I built a fixed position gate. Just eyeballed it based on Malibu pics. No real measurements to speak of. I'll test it this weekend.
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Surfin USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunji169
That looks great! Where did you get the HDPE?
Don't you guys have local plastics shops? We do. I got mine at TAP Plastics in Portland. But there's a few other places I could have gone to in the local area.Quote:
Originally Posted by wotan2525
Keltech in Tacoma. 2'x8'x3/4 was around $200
Tap Plastics. I got bored and decided to redo it. Second version is on hinge and adjusts angle via turnbuckle. I haven't tried either out yet. Maybe tomorrow.
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Surfin USA
So I was able to try out my "prototype" surf gate yesterday, and I should have done this months ago! We were surfing under normal weighting for my Saltare (500 in the rear locker, 750x2 on either side of the engine, and 2x200 bags on the rear seat we can move around based on the stance of the surfer) along with 4 people adjusting their seating accordingly. I surfed at first w/o the gate as usual, there was a lot wash from the non surf side, interference, mostly the swim step cutting into the water underway. I installed the "wake gate" and the difference was night and day! Installed the wake was much cleaner, still tall, and the pocket was waaay longer! At one point I recovered from probably 15-18 feet back, my friend has vidoe on his phone I will try and post it when he e-mails it to me.
I modeled it from yours Cornrickey, just using cheaper materials, lol, an old cutting board to be exact! It worked great, and there are a few improvements right of the bat I can make to make it better moving forward. For starters, I was not able to find the adjustable turnbuckle you used on your Cornrickey anywhere, so the surf gate installed simply rests along the rail of the swim step from the pressure of the water against it underway, basically at the same exact angle of the hull of the boat, I believe being able to adjust the gate outward to lets say 10-15 degrees will make a huge difference! I did find those turnbuckles you used bunji169 but I could not see an effective way to incorporate them into my design, and I was also worried all the play with this open eyelets would be a problem, you will have to let us know how they work. Also, the gate could be longer, at this time it falls short of the end of the swim step, I think those two things will make a huge difference! Also, possibly building a new swim step, and raising it up a little bit but I like my fiberglass one now, and I think between the two things I mentioned, it should not be an issue.
Attachment 15024
Here is a couple more pictures of the simple set up surf gate!
Attachment 15025 Attachment 15026
Interesting! So you surf a goofy wave on your salt?
Oh yeah! I had almost a waist high wake yesterday and about 12-15 feet back! I think it's all about your weighing, I would love to see it with a 541 prop! Also, I just move over the 400lbs and my friend all surf regular! Good times all aroundQuote:
Originally Posted by wotan2525
So I tried both versions out yesterday. I named it "Fountain Gate". It created a cool fountain in the non wake side. Of course I forgot to take pics. I will next time. I was thinking it was due to the gate being about 2 inches higher than the swim deck. After seeing yours devovino, maybe that's not the case. Yours looks way higher than mine. I'm going to try again next week with new 1100's in lockers. This should put boat far enough down so gate is completely under water. Otherwise I'll try trimming off a couple inches.
Surfin USA