Guys, reading the work order, the boat was never overheating. It was a faulty temp sender causing a false overheat reading.
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Guys, reading the work order, the boat was never overheating. It was a faulty temp sender causing a false overheat reading.
It's definitely overheating. You can't touch the large metal exhaust risers with your hand without burning yourself. You also can't even touch the hoses that are connected to the front of the motor where the cold water is supposed to be coming in at.
Our last two emails.
ME: I’ve done some hw on the raw water pump. http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-MerCruis...-/400155601291
That is another $600.00. Everyone on the Supra boat forum seems to think the one on there should work if we can get brackets mounted correctly, or it may need rebuilt. Do you expect me to buy one of those pumps for that much? I thought you had replaced the raw water pump from the beginning. According to the forums that should’ve been the first thing checked and replaced. Please email back asap.
Mechanic: As I have explained numerous times. Your raw water pump is fine. It's been replaced twice. Finding brackets to fit your engine to modify a bravo water pump to fit is going to be very difficult. They never had a bravo pump on a Ford engine.
Getting frustrated. Maybe small claims court? Where from here....
You need to talk to this guy in person. Something is being lost in translation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awill10291
Right, if the raw water pump is fine, then why is there a flow issue in cooling the engine and the exhaust? On my engine, the raw water pump pumps water from the lake pretty much directly to the thermostat housing and the exhaust manifolds. If the hoses are getting hot then either the pump is toast, installed backwards with regards to rotation or any other issue. At this point in time, I would think you are best to just go pick up the boat and stop writing checks for this shady tree mechanic.Quote:
Originally Posted by wotan2525
Go pick up your boat, bring it home if you can and then start taking pictures and maybe video and post them up here so we can get a visual on what you are dealing with because this has been turned into something way more difficult and expensive than it ever should have been. Like was said above, for $4,000 or so you could have had a new crate engine dropped in there I bet.
This is why I don't pay people to work on my stuff, go get your boat and learn a thing or two along with saving your wallet. If it was me I would start at water inlet and go to town with the cooling system which is an extremely simple design. Everything on these engines are very simple and straight forward.
Have you hooked your boat to a bucket or fake-a-lake to see if the pump is sucking water and is the water coming out the exhaust?
Have you tried calling skidim. I know they have universal raw water pump brackets for fords. Just from the info from that email this guy is in over his head. If he has put two pumps in and have done all he says he has then you would be using your boat right now.
I would really go down and look at the boat with the mechanic. If everything else is working, this is an issue you can resolve systematically. Verify that each component is working properly, one at a time.Quote:
Originally Posted by wotan2525
Reading over the work orders you posted, it sounds like the boat had numerous issues when you got it. To quote a few:
- bad distributor
- broken distributor clamp
- battery had been hooked up backwards
- various electrical issues including main ground to battery
- bad neutral safety switch
- severely warped heads (having been recently installed this way - gaskets looked "fairly new")
- bent push rods
- automotive starter and fuel pump
- carb needed rebuild
- battery CCA rating too low
- temp sender was bad
- tower mounts are not reinforced
The fact that the engine was not originally marine doesn't necessarily matter, but adding up all these things tells me a bigger story. The previous owner didn't properly maintain this boat, leaving you with a rash of issues to attempt to figure out. That leads me to question where else corners were cut. I do agree with others that perhaps this mechanic is good with I/Os but not familiar with inboards, which is (at best) a disadvantage to you both. It does sound like he's trying to do the right thing at this point and get to the bottom of it. This is one of those situations where everyone loses. I hope he can get you straightened out and back on the water. Just work with him to get to a resolution unless you have a good alternative; I get the feeling that this is what you really want to do.
TL;DR: There is nothing more expensive than a cheap boat.
What really is bothering me is of the raw water pump is fine then why is he trying to add a bravo pump. If you need a new bracket they make ford universals that you can get. If he's saying the pump is good and he still can't figure it out the mechanic is guessing. But i do agree with the above. This boat had a ton of issues because it was neglected by the previous owner. Find a mechanic that knows inboards. someone on here has to know a mechanic in your area
I agree with others... Get a new Sherwood pump. It will take care of the issue. I had a similar issue. Boat was running hot. Put a new impellar in and thought problem was fixed. Still had the same problem. I hook my boat to a rubbermaid storage container on the trailer. Could tell by putting my hand on the inlet that it did not have good suction. Pump was worn just enough that it would pull the water in. I called Skidim and got a new pump. Bamm... Had so much suction it would pull your finger in the hose.
Others might be able to rebuild the pump, but I just replaced it.
SwuamInboards, You are right on with your post. At this point I almost feel like I should just get rid of it after this issue is fixed. I haven't even been able to enjoy 1 day on the water with this investment :(.
Last text to my dad who's boat is getting winterized; Not doing anything to it for now. Too busy winterizing. I told him it needs a larger sea water pump made for a big block ford. The one he has is for small block ford. Not enough water flow to keep up. Problem is no one makes one for a big block ford.
Couple questions for this board.
1. Is it even POSSIBLE that it may really indeed need a bigger raw water pump?
2. Does anyone know of a good inboard mechanic in Nebraska. Preferably Omaha. (Omaha Marine won't work on this boat because of age. I could try Valley Marine, which is where this guy ran the snow before he started his own large shop.)
Thanks
This right here is the problem. It is a mindset issue with this guy. What raw water pump is used on a 454? You mean to tell me that the pump that can handle the cooling needs of a GM 454 cannot handle a Ford 460? Man, my bovine fecal matter detector is pegged out on max on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awill10291
So my question to you is. Would a 454 or larger pump make a difference though? Also I'm going to try to go get pics and video. Also fake a lake done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetlink
No cause the block can only allow so much water through at once. I wouldn't test the pump with a fake a lake. Unhook the feeder hose to the pump. Put it in a 5 gallon bucket of water. Turn it on. The bucket should be empty pretty quickly. I have never timer it before but it seems like under 30 seconds. Someone else on here may know the time better
I didn't put a timer on it, but I counted in my head last week when I winterized and I sucked 5 gal of antifreeze in about 20 seconds. That was at high idle, (1100 rpm)
I'm trying to remember, but a few years back one of the techs at the marina where I was working bought a 1990-ish Sport Nautique with the original carb'ed Ford 351. He had some weird overheating issues and even replaced the circ pump after determining the RWP was working perfectly, no air leaks, etc. I will ask him next time I see him, but he ended up doing head gaskets on it, which I think actually solved the problem. I believe it was allowing air to get into the water, which was causing bubbles in the system which are nearly impossible to discover since it's not a closed system. The RWP was working perfectly, as was the circ pump. But I think by allowing air into the system, it was causing flow issues even though everything looked ok.
Basically, everything checked out fine, and when tested individually each component was working perfectly and/or water was flowing freely. But in actual use, it would overheat at idle.
Again, my memory is a bit fuzzy but does this make sense to anyone else? Especially where this engine has recently had head gaskets done.
I agree (especially where it appears to have been working previously) that a larger RWP is not the answer.
That does make sense. If the gasket was bad or the head wasn't torqued correctly it would allow air in but I would imagine if air is leaking in then water would leak out.
For the (at least) third time in this thread: I know the answer.
I had the same problem. My pump seemed fine and the impeller had been replaced. I had cleared all of the lines of any potential blockages. My boat ran fine on the hose (and at idle) but overheated while under way.
The pump was worn and needed to be rebuilt. They have a service life. Sherwood sells a rebuild kit that includes new bearings and seals as a well as a new brass "insert" that makes your pump tight and efficient again.
This was my first reply to this thread and I was told by OP that he had replaced the raw water pump. Now that we know that isn't the case, it's the only possible solution. The pump is either shot (or there is still blockage somewhere.)
If you're not doing the work yourself, I suspect a new pump would be a cheaper alternative to paying for the rebuild kit and then hiring a machine shop to assemble it for you. But that's up to OP. I can't help him any more. He's not interested in fixing the boat, only remaining on good terms with his current horrible mechanic.
Did you not read previous posts? I clarified with the "horrible mechanic" he says the raw water pump HAS been replaced twice... At this point being on good terms doesn't really matter to me. If you read post I mentioned small claims court, which is on my mind. It's hard when he works on all my neighbors boats, families boats, and stores them. Plus he's not making me pay a dime till it's fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by wotan2525
Replace the pump (again)....don't replace the pump....
Test the pump. You or the next mechanic will have to anyway if this mechanic hasn't/won't. Tossing parts at a problem rarely has a good outcome.
So don't take this the wrong way but the mechanic is never going to get this boat right. It's been almost two months. If you want your boat repaired pull it and bring the guy to small claims court. $4k is absurd money to throw at a boat and still have the original problem. I doubt you'll ever see a dime of it back but just having it on record that this guy screwed you should make some of the wound heal a bit. I'm kind of over this thread. We have all tried to help you. Not really sure what else we can do Other then flying out and spending two hours repairing it ourselves. If you try selling the boat you'll never recoup a fraction of what you have into it. Pull the boat and I'm sure any of us will walk you through repairing it correctly. This really isn't brain surgery if it's overheating it can only be a few things. I would be glad to FaceTime you when you get it and help out.
I've personally rebuilt the Sherwood pump on my boat, all you need is a small press... One from harbor would do the trick..
He needs to see if it's the pump first. If I was him the 4K would steer me away from buying more stuff till the issue is figured out.
pull the intake hose off the intake then attach a hose to it and see if it will suck water out of a pail.....if it does not then the pump is no good.
imo. when winterizing i remove it from my v drive and let it suck up antifreeze. Use a clear braided hose so you can see it sucking. 02 if you are running it out of the water on a fake a lake the pump will always look good
Pulled her out of storage today. Have some more funds to put into the Beast. Never going back to that mechanic. **NOTE: STILL OVERHEATING. It's NOT the thermostat, regular water pump, imperller, or THE HEADS. Had the heads taken to a machine shop and grinded down. Raw water pump was never replaced. Only Impeller. Unfortunately almost no mechanic/boat shop will take a look at my boat because it's so old and has the engine swap. Does ANYONE know of a knowledgable boat mechanic in the Omaha/Council Bluffs/or Lincoln area? Would anyone be down to skype me with my boat hooked up to a fake a lake to determine the overheating issue? Talked to a few guys at the boat show this past Sunday, and they said it's likely the raw water pump. Either needs a rebuild or a whole new pump like other have mentioned on this forum (although according to mechanic that had worked on it the last year it had plently of water flow when hooked up to a fake a lake).... I did talk to a boat mechanic in Omaha today that said it's likely the timing and that the timing needs to be exact and tuned up perfectly in order for the 460 truck engine to run at a normal temperature. He said that should be the first thing I should have a mechanic check and that at idle should be set at 9? and at 32 or 33 when at TOTAL ADVANCE... Of course none of that terminology means anything to me. Any more advice/help from anyone is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Dude, test that darn pump already. The fake a lake is an awful test. The water from a garden hose is under pressure. When a boat is on the lake it has to suck water uphill. Any mechanic who would tell you that a fake a lake is a good test is an idiot. No other way about it. Wouldn't you rather know the pump is in fact good or bad so you can stop guessing? It's a hell of alot cheaper to test it than just replace it without knowing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awill10291
Definitely gotta do the bucket test next. You disconnect the hose from the fitting that goes through the hull near the transmission, and stick that into a 5-gal bucket full of water. Then you start the engine and time exactly how long it takes to empty the bucket at idle. If you want to get fancy, you can drill a hole in the side of the bucket near the bottom and put a hose fitting right on it (seal it with caulking of course) - you can even put a little valve inline to get really fancy. It's a good way to non-tox the engine when winterizing, too. It allows you to put the bucket above the height of the engine so gravity is on your side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty87
One thing I would do BEFORE that, is to run the engine on a hose / fake-a-lake / whatever, so you know the system is primed (aka full of water). THEN try your bucket test.
In fact, it's not a bad technique to run your engine on dry land using a bucket, rather than a hose directly - you can put the garden hose into the bucket so it stays filled. It's possible to create enough suction at higher RPM to flatten a regular garden hose when hooked up directly to the intake hose on the RWP. The bucket creates a buffer against that especially if you are going above idle speed. Always in netural only of course!
Take some pictures of your raw water pump both installed in the boat and out of the boat and apart as well. Post them up here and it will help us get you pointed in a good direction.
We will make a boat mechanic out of you yet.
Float your boat down the Missouri to St Joe and I'll take a look at it! Make sure your transmission cooler isn't clogged with debris, this happened to me. Seriously I would like to take a look, I am a retired Air Force mechanic, now it's muscle cars and boats.
Thanks for all the great replies. Salty of course I'd rather test it, but I don't know where the raw water pump even is... I'm looking at youtube and through this forum today and I will certainly try to do the bucket test on my own. AgeTech I do plan on going out on the river this spring/summer! I'll be in touch if I need you and thanks for you're offer!!! How long of a float would that be to St. Joe? Thanks for all your guys help.
Follow the water, start at the raw water pick up and follow the hoses and the first stop on the engine is going to be your raw water pump.
This thread again?
http://media0.giphy.com/media/Rhhr8D5mKSX7O/giphy.gif
I'll FaceTime with you if you need help with the pump.
You don't need to know where the pump is to test it.
What sort of fake a lake do you have? Does it connect to the outside of the hull and almost look like a toilet plunger? Or, are you connecting a garden hose inside the boat closer to the engine?
http://i64.tinypic.com/efkvly.jpg
Spent probably 50 hours trying to get the previous rhino liner that was painted blue off this tower. Took to 2 powder coating shops in Omaha and their ovens were to small. Went with some black coating my buddy had at his shop, and it doesn't look too bad. Tower Speakers to be on soon. CuseFan I messaged you. Will be doing 5 gallon bucket test this weekend if nice out! TY!
I just realized we've never seen a picture of this boat. Have we?
You should have just visited 1 dumpster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awill10291
Sorry, I rarely play the villain but this thread is just too much for me. I don't like my tower all that much but that one is just horrrrrrible.
Is that a home made tower?!?