The 2.02 and 1.94 are pretty close in price. I haven't noticed the chamber size when looking at new castings, I'll look for it though. These are the vortec heads by the way.
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The 2.02 and 1.94 are pretty close in price. I haven't noticed the chamber size when looking at new castings, I'll look for it though. These are the vortec heads by the way.
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What do you think of these?
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/sum-151124
A review said they had SS valves
Or these
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12558060
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I wanted to make sure, so spent some time looking up the individual parts they are using. I like the second set...the 12558060's. They have everything you need, including stainless valves, bronze guides, and even the hardened exhaust seats. It is better than what came on the boat to begin with.
The first set seems to be what Indmar used, with the addition of the stainless valves. They would work fine, but don't have the bronze guides or hardened seats, so a bit less durable for your marine application.
Given a choice of a rebuild with a lot of used parts or these, I'd personally choose the new heads. There is no question about what you are getting with them, and summit has a reputation for good quality at a great price.
Look at the pricing . I mean new heads make more sense to me . Plus that's free shipping too right ?
Correct. At that price I'll go with the new ones. I'm going to pick up a pair of the heads and the arp head bolt kit. Now I just need to find a gasket kit (I've seen a ton, just need to decide on one).
CJD, thanks for your help in explaining the heads and the research you've done. It's helped a ton!
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Glad to see you're going with new heads... I finally got to read the rest of all this, and I was screaming a little internally when they were telling you they'd use anything the could salvage outta the old heads. Never, ever put used parts in a head unless it's a race motor that will get torn down regularly anyway.
Good luck to do with it, you'll enjoy the new heads much more!
@Broke Pilot: Funny thing is, multiple machine shops in the area wanted to do that.
So I finally ordered all the parts, and I was thinking about my source of water in the heads. I'm wondering if I might have a riser gasket that is leaking. I pulled the manifold and riser off as one whole piece, but now I'm thinking about it and it may be worth it to replace the gaskets in the risers as well (along with all of the rusted bolts :/). I have a half system system, so the coolant/anti-freeze is only running through the block and heads, the manifolds and risers are typical setup with salt water passing through them.
The risers wear from the inside, so there is a chance the baffles are rusted away. Definitely worth looking at while they are off.
That was my thought as well. I went ahead and bought new riser gaskets and all SS bolts for both sets of manifolds and risers.
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Well I've got good news and bad news.
The good news:
I got the heads installed this weekend and the compression is even on all my cylinders except one (will get to that). The install wasn't too bad, we took things slow and steady. Here's a couple of quick picks I took.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...a961abc78b.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...84eed9b1e5.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...a1882321d1.jpg
The bad:
First, the #3 cylinder is still a bit low on compression. It's 120 while the others are around 150. I'm going to see if I can do a wet test next weekend to determine if it's the rings or maybe the head didn't get torqued right.
Second, I found 3 bad/collapsed lifters and I suspect there are a couple more (one being used on the #3 cylinder. The bowl where the push rod sits just fell down into the lifter there was no spring what so ever. I bought 3 new ones, but I think I'm just going to be proactive and replace them all.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...e90f9eed45.jpg
Third, things were going great until I broke a bolt off when installing the intake manifold. I misread the torque specs on the gm torque spec sheet indmar sent me and I managed to break a bolt off in the head. A few minutes later it began to rain so I decided to pack it up for the weekend. I'll have to see how far down it snapped off, I'm hoping it's not too bad and at worse I can snag it with an EZ-out (I've unfortunately had to do that before on other things...)
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One other piece of good news, my buddy was able to clean up my pedal position sensor/throttlemate assembly and it is now working wayyyyy better. It was binding up through its range of motion due to a lot of crud building up around the shaft, plastic bushing, and some other moving parts. Now it's super smooth and snaps right back to 0 if you don't have a cable hooked up to it (before it wouldn't even move with out you forcing it). That saved me $250 :)
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I love new motor parts!
Strange about the #3 compression. If it was good before the head came off, then it seems it would have to be head related...or maybe the bad lifter was affecting it...
I'm especially glad to hear the compression was good on 5 and 7. That means the rings are good. You should see a world of difference next time you take the boat out.
It was low prior to the whole overheat scenario, I thought it may have just been a bad reading from a cheap compression gauge. I'm not ruling the lifters out though, I'm going to buy a new set and see if it helps. If that does nothing then I'm going to try a wet compression test.
Wiped lifters means oil starvation. I'm not optimistic about the long-term for this engine. The good news? You'll be pretty damn good at wrenching on it by the time you're done with this! ;)
It would mean oil starvation to the valves and rockers, which are now replaced. My understanding is the valves/rockers are the last thing to get oiled in the GM 350, and the lifters are what provide the oil to that (and only that). I'm trying to wrap my head around the way the pistons get oil, it can't come through the valves because that would cause detonation. I'm struggling to find a good diagram of how the 350 provides oil there (everyone seems to talk about the crank and valves, no one mentions the pistons :( )
The pistons are oiled from the crank bearings. Oil from those is flung off and into the bottom of the pistons and on to the piston skirt.Quote:
Originally Posted by pridekit
I wish I could see through the block and watch that process. It doesn't seem like there would be much oil actually getting to the piston.
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It's enough. The SBC was the mainline engine at GM for over 40 years, so it works very well. If you get into heavy super charging, then it becomes necessary to add more oil to the cylinder walls.
If a couple squirts of oil in the plug hole raises the compression, then you know it's a ring problem.
I took a part the manifold on the bad side. One side of the gasket looked a bit funky. Other than that it just looked orange and a bit bubbly in there.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...d1f282a29b.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...90c6b7f4ec.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...b5f88f5af7.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...5029dac664.jpg
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http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...6b56f3a9fd.jpg
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I'm finally out of my element...not really sure what to check. It appears the slots are where the water from the cooler rises outside of the center exhaust. If so, then that bad area of the gasket would allow the water from the slot to leak into the "dry" exhaust area of the manifold...and therebye into the lowest cylinders. So it seems to me you may have found the route the water took.
Hopefully someone that understands risers will chime in.
It rained off and on this weekend, but I got the broken bolt pulled out and the intake manifold properly torqued down. I replaced all of the lifters with brand new ones while I was at it.
I pulled the other riser off and the gasket looked fine. I replaced the riser gasket and bolts (found some nice stainless bolts with gasket on mr cool).
Just need to mount the exhaust, put the distributor in, and plug in all of the electrical goodies. I didn't get a chance to perform the wet test, but I want to warm the motor up and perform a dry test first.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...a847f36636.jpg
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So I got everything put back together a few weeks back, but I've been struggling to get the motor to show any signs of life.
Primed the oil galleys with the priming tool and drill.
I have reset the timing, turned the motor to #1 TDC, lined up the white line on the distributor housing with the indent in the gear. Hooked up the coil and plug wires. I verified in getting spark to all 8 plugs with a plug tester.
The fuel rails have fuel (haven't checked the exact pressure value), the plugs have some gas on them when I pull them out.
I've primed the fuel pump about 4 times, I tried advancing the throttle to 25%.
The only thing I haven't checked is if my plugs themselves are sparking.
What else am I missing?
https://vimeo.com/145787691
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Hi,
Really there are just a few thing that can be wrong when it doesnt start at all. Right?
Fuel, air, spark and compression. If you have all of those at least it should try to fire.
I had an issue a couple of years back. After a lot of testing it turned out to be the high pressure fuel pump.
I am not 100% sure we use the same system, but if we do I have a pretty good understanding of what can be wrong. As I spent not hours but days and weeks figuring this out myself.
My issue was as easy as an corroded wire.
Since you have done some testing I would start with the easiest.
We know you have spark.
Air shouldn't be a problem.
So fuel.
Try pouring an ounce of fuel down the throat of the carburator (or wait, do you have TBI or MPI?, might be totally different if you have MPI? I'll assume you have TBI and otherwise someone else might find this useful in the future).
When I did this it fired right up.
This tells you either of two things are wrong. Your injectors aren't firing or your fuel pressure.
I disconnected one of the injectors and put a small LED there instead. The LED should be flashing as you turn the engine over.
If the LED isn't flashing you have a problem with some part of the electronics. There is a module on the distributor connected to the ECU that controls the injectors. That module could be broken, or bad connection.
Or the distributor isn't sending the correct signal, out of magnetization? Or something?
If it doesn't start when you pour a shot of fuel down the carb I would suspect compression.
If you have good compression, then the spark could be too weak or badly out of sync.
Like you put the distributor in backwards, it goes in one of two ways. 180 degrees. From what I have read.
PM me if you would like a very long trouble shooting guide for MEFI 4. Which is what I have at least, you might have a newer system.
Good luck!
Mike
make sure you press the neutral safety switch when you advance the throttle
are you sure the distributor is not 180 degrees out? When you set piston #1 to TDC, did you verify it was on TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke, instead of the exhaust stroke? i've done this before, and ended up with the same results you have. its a very easy thing to overlook.
Both valves are in the up position. There is a mark on the balancer and the housing. I lined those up to ensure TDC. I lined up the indent and white line on the distributor and dropped the distributor in. The rotor is sitting just to the left of the number 8 on the distributor housing (roughly above the hole located there). This lines up to be just before the number 1 on the cap.
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What Moor said. You have to make sure that the intake valve was what closed before #1 came up on tdc and that it wasnt the exhaust closing coming up on tdc. In both cases both valves are closed and the balancer will show tdc.
I understand now. I'll check that next time I'm near the boat.
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Now that I think about it, I was basing it on when the valve closest to the stern (front of engine) would go up. With out checking any pictures, Im almost that is the exhaust valve. :)
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Yeah if you look at your picture in post 50 of this thread you can see that the exhaust valve is whats located at what would be the front of the motor. Look and you'll see that ajoining cylinders have mirror image valve layout (exhaust,intake,intake,exhaust,exhaust,intake,inta ke,exhaust). Turn the motor and watch the exhaust open and then close (exhaust stroke) and then the intake open and close (intake stroke) and then bring motor up on TDC on balancer (compresssion stroke).
So, I finally had a chance to get back and deal with the timing issue. I was definitely 180 out, long story short, I got the motor running today. I didn't run it long, but I did bring it up to 1200 rpm and checked the cam angle with diacom, it was at 640 so I need to adjust the timing a bit.
I found my impeller had lost a few vanes so I disassembled it and my trans cooler to clean out the debris. I've decided to redesign how my hoses are set up back there (I was loosing about 1/3 diameter from a funky turn I made with the impeller to trans cooler hose, swapping to a 90 degree elbow instead).
I heard a ticking noise, but it might be a lifter that isn't pumped up yet or a loose rocker, I'm going to investigate that after I get the timing set right.
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I got the rockers adjusted today, which seems to have solved the ticking/clicking noise I heard. I also got my raw water pump installed again, to find out that the rear seal is leaking -_-
As for the timing, when trying to adjust the timing at 1200 RPM, the motor started to choke and eventually die at 650 degrees.
When I raise the rpm over 2000, the motor stumbles and dies as well. I'm at a bit of a loss, any suggestions on what I can do to get this timing set right? Am I off by a tooth or two on the distributor?
Here's a little video of it running at idle :)
https://vimeo.com/150497087
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650 degrees??
Yep, 650 degree cam angle. That's what diacom is reporting.
According to this, I should be at 705.
https://www.bakesonline.com/images/M...tionTiming.pdf
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My 2005 uses the 10 BTDC at the crank timing spec. Are you sure yours is MEFI 5?
If it is, the 705 cam degrees would be the same as 7.5 degrees BTDC at the crank. Even if you skipped a tooth installing the distributor, it would merely result in an odd distributor angle, but you would still be able to adjust it.
I'm positive it's mefi 5. Very strange, I wonder why it's so far off.
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Here's someone from the Malibu forums with a similar issue (skip down to the last couple of posts).
http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/...rebuild/page-2
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Well, I figured out what I did wrong :)
Here's where my rotor at 1
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...4fc707e28a.jpg
And here's my crank position
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...13ebcf4ecb.jpg
So I'm firing way after TDC. I'm still trying to figure out how it even cranked up and idled.
Resetting the dist. now.
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I reset to 1 TDC, pulled the distributor out until I cleared the cam gear. I was off a little bit on my alignment so I turned the rotor clock wise a smidge, dropped the distributor in. The point on the rotor was perfectly centered on the 8 stamped in the distributor.
She fired right up, let her warm up, the checked my cam angle, I was at 706, I adjusted around and couldn't hear much of a difference in sound so I decided to settle right on 705. :)
Thanks for the help everyone! I learned a hell of a lot from this adventure!!!
https://vimeo.com/150545371
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