86' supra sunsport rebuild

I would totally remove the stringers instead of trying to reuse the shell of the fiberglass. Do like Salty said and cut them with a sawzall blade as close to the hull as possible. If you're really nervous about getting them back in the right place, do one at a time. Cut it out, grind, clean, cut, shape, fit and bond in place, glass, then move to the next one. You have the other stringers there as reference points to get a level surface for the deck and to take measurements you might not have thought about.

I used resin sanding discs rather than flapper discs. I primarily used 24 grit IIRC.

http://www.tvactools.com/catalog/554...r%20_thumb.JPG

OB- so what do those disc mount to0? cause i think i have almost every tool known to man lol .. are those peel and stick ?

Just a hard plastic / rubber backer that attaches to the grinder.

ok ill do some looking and hopefully get this foam out , i haven't ordered my resin yet due to shelf life .. i think poly is what im going to use ....

i have 38"x40' 6oz of chop strand mat / 50" x 40' wovin rovin 10 oz

and will be using douglas fir timber for wood replacement

do you think this will be suitable for the stringer and deck ?

I used primarily 1708 biaxial cloth for all the structure and mat/cloth combo for the deck. Salty used woven roving for his structural pieces so he can speak more to using that. I know he has mentioned before you want to use poly with woven roving. IIRC I used 50" width 1708 and I think I used a total of 25 yards, but I'd have to go back to my tracking spreadsheet to see exactly what I used,if you want the specifics.

OB - yeah man check it out for me would ya ?!

I bought 56yrds today of stranded mat for 80$ of Craigslist !! i was doing late night shopping and found this guy local ... what would use just strande mat for , deck? or could i bond stringers with it too ...?

Hey lol i know my ?s are adding up sorry .. but for the (peanut butter mixture) do i use that for my stringers to bond to the hull ? and where else would i need that thickness at ?
Thanks a million guys!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lively

OB - yeah man check it out for me would ya ?!

I bought 56yrds today of stranded mat for 80$ of Craigslist !! i was doing late night shopping and found this guy local ... what would use just strande mat for , deck? or could i bond stringers with it too ...?

Hey lol i know my ?s are adding up sorry .. but for the (peanut butter mixture) do i use that for my stringers to bond to the hull ? and where else would i need that thickness at ?
Thanks a million guys!

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I'll look in the next couple days and let you know for sure. I primarily used mat for the deck. From what I recall reading about it, mat provides good strength because of the random alternating orientation of the strands, but it takes quite a bit to get a build up thickness desired. The 1708 has a biaxial cloth with mat stitched to it, so mat does serve a valid purpose.

The thickened epoxy (peanut butter) will be used any time you are wanting to bond. Stringers to hull, ribs, deck, etc. You will also want to make up a mixture that is similar to lay fillets with prior to laying the glass down.

ok sweet , i was also told i could cut up some of the stranded mat and use the strands while mixing to make it thicker is this true ?

and to make it thicker do i use the cabosil powder ? and mix ? i mean how do i know how much to mix ? thanks for the help man it sure makes things make since

I used just cabosil for the bonding and about 20% cabosil and 80% glass bubbles for fillets. Basically you just mix in enough to get it the right consistency. The first couple times it will take a bit to figure out what will work. You basically want it to be thick like peanut butter or frosting. You should be able to hold it vertical on a spreading stick and mot have it "drip" off.

these thoughts are not in any particular order, just some things i noticed trying to catch up

with poly, you need to lay down chopped strand mat or the cloth/woven won't wet out well. the mat acts like a sponge and holds the cloths down. the chopped mat helps with strength but not really a whole lot. it's pretty light by weight. def better than nothing.

cabosil works good in poly but keep in mind that it doesn't add strength. if anything, it weakens the resin a bit. shredded csm is much better. in reality, a combo if the 2 is best.

another method to consider is PL Premium Construction Adhesive. home depot carries it in big caulk tubes. it's probably not cheap compared to resin bought in bulk but it's convenient.

i found a local supplier of 5 gal buckets of poly, those are so much easier than 1 gal cans when you're glassing stringers or other large items. check around for industrial suppliers. i know this isn't local to you but this gives you an idea of the type of company i'm talking about....http://www.joscoproducts.com/ . that's where i got 5 gal buckets in austin.

Salt - I plan to use the PL adhesive to bed the stringers ,

If you dont mind can you give my a lay out of what you used far as what kind (#) resin , and what would be a good type of fiberglass to use

I mean if i need to use epoxy i will , just have no clue what to get , like :us composites: has this 404 tooling poly and then has some 5 gal 435 standard layup resin for 121.00 , I like the price of poly but is that going to hold up well with the cloth i have or should i get something different ?

Would it be better to get some 1708 biax ? thanks for all the help

AND what is CSM ?

i'm 90% sure i used 435 when i bought from uscomposites.

everything gets csm (chopped strand mat) first before cloth or roven. so, you'll need alot. when i bought the 5 gal buckets locally, they had a little 'kit' that included hardener and enough csm for the 5 gal to wet out. i haven't used the biax. from the little i know, it has csm built in? if so, would prob be easier and quicker.

pretty sure i used 6 oz cloth for the top and bottom of the floor. that's what i'm sending you (someday, lol). it might be 10 oz.
i think i used 18 oz woven.

biax says csm is buit-in...
DBM 1708 Biaxial
+/- 45degree
Contains double bias(17oz) stitched at 45degrees
along with one layer of 3/4oz mat.
Thickness: 0.044"

ok then ill get the 435 poly ... its got great prices ! ha ha

I think ill get some 1708 for the stringers and ribs and then lay my CSM for the deck .. what kind of wood would you recommend for the deck ? im using douglas fir for the stringers but i was thinking of pre laminating the deck pieces before i install and then using that PL stuff to bond and finish laminating to the sides and main stringers ...

How long did it take you to install the stringers ?

man im so stoked about this build ! lol and thanks to you and all the others help ill have this thing back together in no time !

i used 1/2" marine plywood for the deck. pre-laminated the bottom and running a fat bead of PL is exactly how i layed the deck. followed with screws into the stringers...slather sealant on the threads. then glass it over.

stringers can go slow or fast depending on how close you get with your initial cuts. trimming and grinding to fit for fine-tuning takes time. also takes a bunch of climbing in the boat with the stringer, check the fit, climb back out with stringer and take a little off with saw or grinder...repeat. depends how anal you are too.

this is really a project where you can go super quick if you're clever. you can take forever if you want too. if you're smart about rigging supports that hold the stringer in place while you bed it and then glass you can go faster than if you are relying on the accurate fit to hold the stringer in place.

where did you get the sealant for the screws ? and what about drain holes where did you put those at ?
on the bed side of the stringers .. will those be angle cuts or are they all level plains ?

Thanks for the help salt .. i think i have got a pretty good idea what i gotta do now ...

PL for the screws. i think i used some 5200 that was leftover too.

for the drain holes i put some in the main stringers just forward of the engine. you can barely see them in some of the shots in my thread. i also put some behind the engine under the exhaust pipes where they angle down. for the outter stringers, i put some at the transom...none in the middle. bow rise will drive any water trapped outside of the outter stringers to the transom.

the outter stringers sit mostly flat. the main stringers have an angled edge that can be tough as the v of the hull gets more steep up front.

well my puter connection at work is not letting me see the pics so ill have to look when i get home ,

i was reading on the foam you installed with trash bags , did you like the outcome of that . and did you foam everything ?

did you cut out the bubble of glass upper front bow under cooler ? if so how did you form new glass to make tha same shape ?

A couple items to note to catch up, as well.

I also glassed the deck pieces on the under side prior to installation.

The main stringers are definitely tricky up front. Compound angles, basically.

You might try deciding whether you're going to do foam or not early on. There are some schools of thought about foam vs. no foam relating to drain / limber holes. Many good points can be made regarding not using drain holes when using foam.

Up front under the cooler, I removed all that was there and I installed a flat piece in the vee to level it and have a slight downhill slope back to the bilge pump. I also put a ~2' square hatch in the floor to access that area between the engine and the cooler. That left the area under the cooler very wide open and allowed me to hide a ballast bag up there. There is enough room for ~500# of weight up there. Something to consider, for sure.

the foam worked out very well. outside temp makes a huge difference in the expansion rate. other than figuring that out, it was easy. i'm not sure how effective my foam job is and i hope to never find out. i foamed all compartments.

under the cooler in a saltare is different than a sunsport. our air intake hoses route under the floor below the cooler. a real design mess. i modified it so that any water that might get into the air intake will find a way to the bilge pump.

salt- on the foam making the blocks like you did , does that allow them to float inside the cavity to let water run underneath it and out the limber holes ?

OB- I like the ballast idea ! how much weight you put in your boat ? cause i have like 4 flotec pumps 360 gph that im going to fix up in there for ballast ,

i did foam blocks to allow for drainage. poured foam is nasty when wet. it sticks to ANYTHING and sticks very well. foam will form a skin once it dries. my thought was that any water that got in there would be able to drain off. if the foam was poured without the bags, it will clog everything up.

another possible problem with poured foam and limber holes is that water can back-up into the limber holes if you forget the plug or something. you don't want the foam to get soaked. the blocks won't absorb water.

i was afraid noise would be loud and i wanted some flotation. i might skip foam if i were to ever do another.

okie's ballast/storage idea is a good one. are you putting the factory ski pole back in?

salt - No ski pole was on the boat so i removed the plate and i have a tower already , I think on the foam ill pass . i want this thing to be dry ... i also have 3 new blowers that the guy gave me i thought of putting 2 where the air intake goes into the floor and 2 on the rear for forward and outward air flow ..

I still need to find a wake plate .. there was never one on here . so if you or anyone else know where i find one please let me know .. Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lively

OB- I like the ballast idea ! how much weight you put in your boat ? cause i have like 4 flotec pumps 360 gph that im going to fix up in there for ballast ,

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I typically run about 1300# of weight. The space under the cooler in the bilge has enough volume for about 500# of weight, but I don't have the right sized bags to fit it all down there. I'm eventually going to get a custom bag made, most likely. Currently I run a 350# bag down there and a 250# on top between the doghouse and cooler. I also rebuilt the rear seat base so it is one large area, along with putting support underneath the ski locker (I have the drop in plastic style). The two bags that go in the rear are ones I bought off a Moomba owner that were standard bags. IIRC they are 10 x 16 x 72 and give about 400#. So I have the two bags in the back that total ~800# and the two bags up front that total ~600#. None of them fill completely so I estimate I'm getting about 1300#. It makes a nice wake. I'm running one Simer pump and manually connecting to fill/drain. This winter I plan to plumb in a manifold with valves and hosing to each bag so with the one pump I can fill the bags one at a time with the flip of a switch and turn of a handle until they're all full. If possible, I'll get the custom bag for down below too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Okie Boarder

I typically run about 1300# of weight. The space under the cooler in the bilge has enough volume for about 500# of weight, but I don't have the right sized bags to fit it all down there. I'm eventually going to get a custom bag made, most likely. Currently I run a 350# bag down there and a 250# on top between the doghouse and cooler. I also rebuilt the rear seat base so it is one large area, along with putting support underneath the ski locker (I have the drop in plastic style). The two bags that go in the rear are ones I bought off a Moomba owner that were standard bags. IIRC they are 10 x 16 x 72 and give about 400#. So I have the two bags in the back that total ~800# and the two bags up front that total ~600#. None of them fill completely so I estimate I'm getting about 1300#. It makes a nice wake. I'm running one Simer pump and manually connecting to fill/drain. This winter I plan to plumb in a manifold with valves and hosing to each bag so with the one pump I can fill the bags one at a time with the flip of a switch and turn of a handle until they're all full. If possible, I'll get the custom bag for down below too.

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Heck ya man , sounds like you got some weight in that puppy ... the sacks are pretty expensive ... you think it would be cheaper to weld some tanks up instead ?

well guys its friday and the weather is not so bad today we were supposed to get rain but just like everything else it get's passed on a few days ..

so today Im planning on removing the rest of the deck and remove all the leftover foam ... Then i plan to take measurements of the stringers and start cutting on side out ... Im ordering the resin next week and still looking on C.L. for a used table saw .. so wish me luck and hope yall enjoy your labor day holiday weekend .. ill post some more pics this weekend . -lively-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lively

Heck ya man , sounds like you got some weight in that puppy ... the sacks are pretty expensive ... you think it would be cheaper to weld some tanks up instead ?

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I doubt it. I started looking at tanks and it didn't seem like it was going to be very cost effective compared to bags.

below the deck and integrated into the stringer system is the best bang for your buck. i'm cheering you on, we've all wanted to do it but it's probably something like running an extra mile after a marathon. (won't ever catch me running one so i'm just guessing)

http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/ff0b6100.jpghttp://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/12863642.jpglate night foamin lol http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/3450bd54.jpghttp://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/c3af52d8.jpg

This foam is no fun ! But it's out

http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/fb95fc57.jpghttp://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/c63d845c.jpghttp://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/d0f5a820.jpg

Instead of ballast what about a wedge right here http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/aada5090.jpg

Looking good. Man I remember what a pain the foam was and how many trash bags we filled...LOL! The wedge is an option to consider. The one thing you need to understand is the amount of force it will apply to the back of the boat and reinforce it accordingly.

yeah it was no fun ! and im still looking at wedge designs trying to figure it all out and if i can design a sturdy enough transom to hold that amount of downward force ... but thats just farts in the wind for now lol ...

This hull got quite flimsy when it was all de foamed and ribs were taken out , I put 4x4s and 1x4s on top of them to support it better while im working on the stringers ..

Question : when grinding , what is enough ? and what did you use for the motor and trans mounts ? i see salty put 4x4s but i was thinking of a 4x6 and cutting to shape , cause mine are 4x5 in the boat now ... , i plan to get one side out this weekend and start grinding , I took as many measurements that i could , but with a boat nothing is plum , level or straight lol , so Im just hoping for the best ...

Congrats on the foam removal - that's a big milestone.

Grinding - I went ~6" either side of each stringer. I left a lip of the old glass for reference while cutting new stringers & then ground it down just prior to bedding each stringer.

Mounts - I used layers of plywood on end with glass between each layer, but most others I've seen are a combination of cut 4x, 2x, and ply. Take lots of measurements, make lots of marks, etc. I made some cardboard templates spanning the bilge and mounts, but even then I ended up with my floor 1/2" high? While it's best to get it right the first time, "modifications" with wood and glass aren't too big a deal.

I am thinking of dropping snap lines to help with the deck height or at least give me point of reference ... But im also doing one side at a time so i can make cut's one time and one time only ... The only thing i am sketchy about are the front angles ... how hard were those for you ?

one of the nice things, if you can call it nice, about rotted stringers is that the wood falls away from the fiberglass skin. keep the skins. cut everything as close to the hull as you can. do the same for the engine area.

strings make good reference points but they get old stepping over them. i spray painted some reference points in the middle bilge channel. it was all eventually ground away by the time it was painted...front of engine area, rear, cutouts at front of dog house.

grinding 6" on both sides of whatever you're glassing is good. don't skimp down to 4" ;)

i like that there are no right angles, level lines, or anything plumb. just slather some more glass and resin in there and it should be fine.

Salt - thanks for that write up , the stringers I'n boat are still pretty much I'n tact , so will see lol ,

What kind of wood did you use for your stringers ? Oh and check out somebodys nice wanna be repairing
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/556d4494.jpghttp://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/e2122e81.jpg. So it looks like some more glass work to do .. :mad:

Grinding...as has been said 6" is good. If you're wondering how deep you should get through whatever is there on top of the hull to the hull itself. You'll be able to tell...get's smoother and somewhat pink/orange color.

Engine mount area...I built it up using two 2x4' stacked together plus a layer of plywood then put the outer layer of plywood on after that.

OB- thanks man i was bout to ask how deep lol , I went and got some resin pads 26 grit , flapper disc 40 grit , sawzaw blades for the stringer removal this weekend .. Im only doing one side at a time .. .. Man they really did a crappy job glassing those stringers , i found all kinds of exposed wood with no glass what so ever ... so if my plan works out like i have it .. ill be working on this thing every weekend till its summer time lol ..

Yeah, I think everyone that has done a rebuild has realized that the glassing Supra did could be better. I'm wondering if it was a decision to be able to produce these boats at a more reasonable price, a decision based on cost / benefit, or an ignorance of better methods that might be more well understood now.

well i got one side cut out tonight , that wood was all rotten !! man im so glad im gutting this boat now , the outer little stringer basically fell apart after i cut it lol

I bought this cool scraper for my sawzaw so ill try that out in the morning , post pics tomorrow .. Thanks for all the help guys !!!!

Ok so here are some pics of the cutting http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/572b34d3.jpghttp://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/d39d9f38.jpghttp://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/dfbd6418.jpg I got into it a little too deep I'n some areas but nothin that poly and mat can't fix ...

Question : around the driveline hump , I wAs grinding 6 " from stringer and ran into looks a grinds like bondo or pudy , did one of y'all reglass this area ? If so how did you go about it ?

Here are some more pics of what I did .... I used some caution paint I had laying around for some reference points ...http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/9bba20f2.jpghttp://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/36cace5a.jpghttp://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/...6/e5c6711c.jpg