It's the older, plunger style. I didn't really follow that sentence about conducting paste...Quote:
Originally Posted by 92SupraComp
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It's the older, plunger style. I didn't really follow that sentence about conducting paste...Quote:
Originally Posted by 92SupraComp
Hmm, hope it's not the starter as I also have a DB Electric starter in mine. Check and clean all battery cable connections, if cables are ratty it may be time to replace them. Check voltage at batteries vs at starter. First step is making sure the starter is getting all the power it wants. Low voltage will result in pulling more amps, heating up the starter and wires more, etc... and of course slow cranking.
Could be vapor lock as someone else mentioned. Check if fuel is dripping from carb boosters at idle or after shutdown when hot. This will cause hard starting and can cause slow cranking. If dripping it could be float level too high, adjust it down a hair if so... Leaky needle and seats, if so clean or replace if required... Or could be heat soak heating or boiling the fuel. I had this problem, resulting is hard starts and sometimes slow cranking when hot. Fix was a phenolic spacer between carb and intake. Helped prevent heat soak of the carb.
Also check timing, I have mine at 10* and that's generally where I set my stock(ish) engines for initial timing. More and you can have hard starting as the engine tries to kick back against the starter particularly if cranking is slow. Generally not an issue until around 14* though. If your timing is set in the 6*-10* range it should start easy. Just make sure it's still where you set it and your mechanical advance isn't sticking. If the advance is rusty or not lubed it can hang and not return to base timing, causing hard starts and slow cranking.
Thanks guys. I'm fairly sure that the hot starter is causing the issue, I just don't know why the starter is getting hot. It's either the starter's fault or how's it's being wired together.
I have basically brand new cables from the batteries to the engine. Less than a year old. No fuel dripping/spilling issues at all and I've had vapor lock before and it just wouldn't start - never any not "turn over" situations. It doesn't behave like a vapor lock to me.
I've got the timing set at 9 degrees per factory specs. The advance seems to be working as it should, and it comes back down (it's sticking).
So how should this thing be wired? I have it setup as it's been since I've owned it, but that doesn't mean it's right. I just replaced the 3 wire alternator with a one wire - 105 amp alternator. This hotter alternator might be creating some issues. So my battery cable comes back to the solenoid on the starter and the main wire bundle from the breaker attaches to the same post. There is a small wire that attaches to the ignition post on the solenoid. That's it. I have a remote solenoid next to the breaker that isn't doing anything. Someone has by-passed it at some point. And while the distributor is electronic (no points), the ballast resistor is still wired in. What is the suggested setup based on these facts?
Pretty sure that you don't need the ballast resistor with the electronic dizzy, but you'll want to double-check that based on what dizzy you are using.
I'd check the starter wiring to make sure there isn't a short to ground somewhere. A continuity tester should make this pretty easy. Sounds like there might be some power flowing through a shorted out starter. Easy part is determining if that is the problem -- hard part is figuring out where you've got a cable shorted.
I don't think they make a new-style high-torque starter for the 454. I've not been able to find one for my bell-housing, anyway -- and I suspect yours is the same. Generally I've had good luck with DB starters but it is possible that they can go bad. I did have a Ford starter in my truck that they replaced 3 times before I gave up and just threw it in the trash. But I've had 2 marine starters from them in 10 years (seems like a good run.)
Mine has the electronic ignition and is also wired through a ballast resistor. I looked at installing a MSD ignition box on it and the wiring diagrams indicated that some of Mallory's ignitions do wire with a resistor for some reason. So it probably is the way it should be on the ignition.
I'm pretty sure that the electronic distributors don't need the ballast resistor. It's exclusively for protecting a points based system.
I'm convinced at this point that it's either a faulty starter or something to do with how it's wired. Again, I haven't changed the wiring setup since I purchased it. If it ain't broke...
So one theory I have is that the new 105 amp alternator is heating up the starter with the wiring setup the way it is. Basically I have a solenoid on the starter and a remote one next to the main circuit breaker. The one next to the circuit breaker wasn't being used at all. Everything was connected at the starter which meant that the alternator was sending the charge through the solenoid on the starter. I've rewired it like the attached diagram, which includes bypassing the resistor. This may not be the problem, but I think this is a more accurate setup and isolates the starter from the alternator. So if this isn't it, I'm thinking something is wrong with the starter.
Attachment 13963
If it's not a Mallory Unilite distributor disregard this but if it is read the statement on the attached diagram. I would agree that your alternator is causing the problem. It sounds as though that is all you have changed. If everything was working correctly before the alternator change to a single wire then it sounds like that's what's created the issue. I just want to point out the warning from Mallory on the ballast resistor so that you don't possibly cause yourself another problem trying to fix another. Either way good luck with it. Attachment 13964
the wiring looks standard...
Use NEVER SEIZE on the starter bolts and the face of the starter that sits against the bell housing. This is the starters ground. Many times a slow starter is caused by a bad positive feed cable or poor grounding to the engine. Also make sure the engine is well grounded. Make sure all connections are clean!
When we bought our CC it came with a HUGE RV/Marine Deep Cycle/Starting Battery. The guy thought the old battery was no good but the starter was actually just crap. You only had 3 attempts to get it cold started (super slow idle, and carb needed to be rebuilt) and then the starter had no strength. When out cruising, if you stop the motor. You have ONE attempt to start hot and then you had wait half an hour. The starter would get very hot each time. So we stole the mini high torque starter from the Supra and never had a problem since. The old starter would drop the voltage gauge almost to its resting point, the mini high torque, barely reached 10 volts :D
For our Supra and relatives boat whose starter literally blew up inside somehow, we bought 2 $60 Marine starters on ebay. They are aluminum bodies instead of steel but for the past 2 years crank just as fast the $200 steel starters...
Electronic pickup distributors almost always take full 12v, no ballast to the pickup or any ignition box. You may still need a ballast resistor, depends on what your coil requires in your application.
With 105A alt wired through that 50A breaker you will trip the breaker if you work the alternator hard from load or discharged batteries. Also be sure all wiring between alternator and battery is at least 4 gauge. 2 gauge is better for the long run to the batteries. Check voltage drop from batteries to starter both running and not, if you haven't already.
Only 4 gauge? CC used 2 gauge and Supra put in #00 (2/0) from the battery to the back of the motor and then #2 gauge to a Mini High torque starter which draws less amps than the old style. Now he has a a 454! That is a much bigger starter! I would use #0 from the battery to the motor and at least #2 from the solenoid to the starter.... 4 gauge is too small for a BBC...
Thanks guys. I did some testing tonight. My ground tests out perfect. The size of cable depends on the length of run and at 2 gauge I'm at least a double more than what the requirement is. And all of the cables are new. I reconnected the resistor after getting the warning from SSA.
I ran it for a while in the driveway tonight and after letting it run for almost 15 minutes, the starter was still very cool. I really think the wiring setup which had the alternator feeding back through the post on the starter was the issue. I turned it off several times and restarted and about created a fire with the wire from the solenoid to the starter. It's one I had simply moved into that location from the old configuration and it was definitely too small of a gauge. I replaced it with some leftover 2 gauge wiring and tried it again. Success - at least on land. It definitely turned over much faster, and I seemed to have conquered the hot starter issue. Only a true lake test will tell me for sure, but that'll come this weekend.
Okay, correct me if I'm wrong. But I plan on getting one of the DB electrical high-amp alternators this year.
But wouldn't you want to wire the main line back to the battery feed and then run a new line from the battery feed to the starter versus what you were doing?
You have to understand I'm electronically stupid. :D
My problem is that I figure everything out, and then forget everything a month later. So I'm always relearning things. But I'm feeling pretty good about understanding my current setup. So I think you're close in your description, it's just that there's a solenoid between the battery feed and the starter. So I'm only sending power to the starter when it actually needs to be starting the engine. The previous setup was a lazy way of connecting everything together. It worked as long as I didn't have a high amp alternator.Quote:
Originally Posted by haugy
Switched speeds and started decals on the trailer. I'm not done, but I'm also not sure exactly where it's going.
http://unumemarketing.com/boat/supra_trailer_decal.jpg
To the lake is my guess...Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanTn
Freshly waxed and ready for our summer lake vacation.
http://rob.chattsoftball.com/pics/freshly_waxed.jpg
Titan, great job on the boat! I have really enjoyed reading and following this thread. I am in the process of rebuilding my 89 pro comp. I took two week off of work and hope to be able to get the bulk of the structural work done. I have a few questions...
1. What weight cloth did you use to glass in the stringers and the cross members (I was thinking 17 oz. bi-axial cloth)?
2. When I put in the new floor do I use a light weight cloth on the bottom of the plywood or do I just coat it with epoxy resin and glass in the top?
3. I like the idea of gluing in the floor board instead of screwing it in. What type of glue should I use?
4. What did you do in place of the original plastic 'foot pan' under the dash in front of the drivers seat? Once I tore into this area I noticed a lot of rot and then found that Supra decided that they would drill a drain hole under the pan through the stringer (leading into the bilge area). If I put the pan back in I was thinking of fixing a pvc pipe as a drain running from the pan directly into the bilge area?
5. What do I use to seal any of the 'through holes'? For instance, the plates and bolts that go through the transom for the deck, the bolt holes in the bottom of the hull for the fins etc. (please see pictures)
6. For the bilge area I have seen people who have used both bilge coat and garage epoxy. Due to the ease and availability of the garage paint is that a good option and does it hold up well?
7. What should I put down on the floor over the fiberglass? I have seen people who are in favor of marine epoxy paint and people who prefer gel coat...
I'm sorry for posting so many questions in your thread but it looks like you have been through all of this and I needed some quick replies as I am in the middle of this project and the clock is ticking :-)
Here is my thread which includes recent photos of the project if you need to see...
https://forum.supraboats.com/showthr...omp-TS6M/page3
Attachment 16116Attachment 16117Attachment 16118Attachment 16118Attachment 16119
Do you know how much cloth and resin you needed? I'm going to order everything at once and need a ball park on how much of each cloth and total resin.
Thanks! It's been a labor of love - and hate. Here are some answers that will hopefully help some.
1. I used biaxial cloth - don't remember the weight. But I also used CSM. You'll need some of both.
2. People have done it both ways. I just epoxied the bottom and I'd do it the same way again.
3. I used PL Construction glue.
4. I don't have a foot pan. Those only came in the Comps (maybe the Conbrio)
5. Either 5200 or 4200 depending if you think they'll ever need to come out again.
6. I used an agricultural enamel paint. It's held up well. If my bilge were not accessible, I might have used bilge paint, but knowing I could touch it up if necessary, I went with enamel.
7. This one is up to you. I put carpet and wouldn't consider anything else. But either of those options will work as well.
I hope that helps. I don't remember how much material I ordered, but it wasn't enough. I needed slightly more cloth and a lot more resin. The cloth REALLY soaks up the resin, so if you are conservatively figuring up your resin needs - I'd double it.
That looks amazing. Job well done. Before going on vacation, consider putting spare belts, a fuel filter, an impeller, and a small crescent wrench under one of the seats for any eventualities. Never hurts to be prepared, especially far from home.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanTn
Thank you for your quick response titan. I don't know what glassing in the floor is going to be like but tearing the stringers, floor and foam out are a back breaker to say the least.
I have a couple of more questions based on your answers above:
attached are pictures of the PL (professional line) adhesive available at my local hardware store. Do any of these look familiar? They have different numbers which I assume are bond strength.
1. On question number 5. you stated that you used 5200 or 4200. What are those two numbers in reference to?
2. What did you use the CSM for if you used PL in lieu of 'Peanut Butter'?
3. Do you have a picture of what went down where the water intake (fresh water intake fitting that is through-hull) is? I have a few bolt holes in a square pattern that surround that inlet. Unfortunately whatever was there to begin with was removed before I started the project. I am including a picture for a little more insight.
4. What was the easiest way to get the stringer out from the fiberglass? I was just thinking about using the Dremel to cut along the string and then beat the heck out of them until I am able to get them loose?
5. Once I start to remove the rest of the stringers can I sit inside of the boat? I am not sure how much weight the hull can take without all the support structure.
Thank you in advance.Attachment 16120Attachment 16121Attachment 16122Attachment 16123Attachment 16124
It's like you've been looking through my boat. All of those items are permanent spares in my boat.Quote:
Originally Posted by DKJBama92Mariah
Is that the original swim platform?
Yes it is. I plan on replacing it this winter if possible.Quote:
Where did you find the old school supra decals for the boat and trailer?
I made them myself. I didn't want the super old school rainbow colors and design, so I made a version of the older Supra logo that I like better and I think is still age appropriate for my boat. I also made the graphic for the trailer but I don't really know what the inspiration for that was. It was something I just tried and it kinda stuck.Quote:
Originally Posted by hoop46
Wow! i'd kill for one for my trailer.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanTn