I got towed by an '09 LSV Malibu today

A friend of mine at work has an '09 LSV Wakesetter 23' Malibu, we went out boarding today and it was a great day on the water. After riding in his Malibu which is a beautiful boat, I was more and more happy with my Supra.

Dont get me wrong, the Malibu has some great features, the ballast system is top notch, electronic gauges for each ballast that can be filled to all different levels, throttle by wire is real smooth, and great visibility when you drive the boat because of the eliptical tower. The mali-view has an awesome display screen, very comfortable bolster seat, and the Malibu throws a great wake for boarding and I was only at 75% full on the ballast system. The sit down seat to put on your wakeboard is a nice feature along with a larger swim deck than my Supra. The 102" beam and 23' length is noticeably bigger and roomier than my 100" beam and 22' length.

However I was surprised, for a boat of the price range, it was missing some items. For one, the trailer did not have 4 wheel disc brakes, two wheel disc brakes with standard chrome wheels. No swivel board racks, no heater, no snap out carpeting. I brought my surfboard and kneeboards along with my wakeboard and he had no way of storing any of these items. We had to walk over them the entire day (No Z5 cargo rack). The eliptical tower pushes the tower speakers way back in the boat, which does two things, it blasts out the people sitting in the boat and I could not even hear the system on the wakeboard. This was the upgraded system Malibu sells with the boat. Another strange item, the rear view mirror is mounted on the center windshield, if you open the center windshield you cant see or use the rearview mirror while towing someone. Not a huge fan of the eliptical tower, I will take the rad-a-cage tower for looks and it feels stronger to me and does not wobble as much when driving the boat. I missed my rear facing seat to watch people, sitting sideways for a couple hours starts to get a little tiring. Also had no useable ice chest like my Supra, which was also missed. And I am not a "bling bling" person, Malibu does deck there boats out with a lot of chrome and bling inside the boat.

It was a great time and was cool to ride on a different boat, I was happy to know that by saving $30k I have a boat that fits my needs more than the malibu. I honestly thought to myself, I dont think I would buy one of these even if I wanted to spend the extra $$$. Now if we could just get Supra to improve the ballast system! Malibu would be a great model for that....

Fman, I picked up an '09 and Supra has already improved their ballast system with 3 seperate pumps (although they do use those stupid ballast timers like MC has). From rumors on the message boards it looks like they are improving the 2010's even more by adding a tank level readout on a digital dash similar to what some of the other manufactuers are already doing.

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Originally Posted by Fman

However I was surprised, for a boat of the price range, it was missing some items. For one, the trailer did not have 4 wheel disc brakes, two wheel disc brakes with standard chrome wheels Is there really a need for 4-wheel disc brakes? My $65K Supra that weighs 5,500# does'nt have 4-wheel either. No swivel board racks, no heater, no snap out carpeting Your Supra doesn't have snap-out carpet either, probably doesn't have a heater. Swivel boardracks are gonna be standard this year, but they ALSO have the option to have 4 board racks, where you're boat doesn't. IMO, I wouldn't want a heater. Never had one and if it's that cold, I'll just stay home.. I brought my surfboard and kneeboards along with my wakeboard and he had no way of storing any of these items. We had to walk over them the entire day (No Z5 cargo rack) Supra (I think) is the only company that even uses the Z5 Cargo Rack, that's why you change tines for the surfboards.. The eliptical tower pushes the tower speakers way back in the boat, which does two things, it blasts out the people sitting in the boat and I could not even hear the system on the wakeboard. It does 3 things, it gives you more headroom than any other boat. You can walk anywhere in that boat and not have to duck out of the way to keep from bumping your head on the speakers. That's one of the complaints with my boat. My speakers are eye-level and even with the stock junk there wasn't that much headroom. This was the upgraded system Malibu sells with the boat. Have you seen the upgraded system on the Supra's? What a joke. They're a total waste of time and money. I'm sure the Malibu system smoked anything Supra's have had. Another strange item, the rear view mirror is mounted on the center windshield I've personally never seen one like that. Most Malibu's use the Samson mirror that mounts to the tower and you can mount it on either the drivers or passengers side., if you open the center windshield you cant see or use the rearview mirror while towing someone. Not a huge fan of the eliptical tower, I will take the rad-a-cage tower for looks and it feels stronger to me and does not wobble as much when driving the boat. My Rad-a-cage wobble's like crazy. I wear my kill switch in rough water because I'm scared it's gonna come down on me or something's gonna break. I missed my rear facing seat to watch people, sitting sideways for a couple hours starts to get a little tiring. Also had no useable ice chest like my Supra, which was also missed Don't you mean a melter? I have to buy 5 bags of ice to get through the day in mine, and by the nightfall it's all water. Then the carpet in the compartment behind the melter is wet from where the melter leaked. Mine was not sealed at all from the factory. First time I filled it, the whole rear compartment got soaked. And I am not a "bling bling" person, Malibu does deck there boats out with a lot of chrome and bling inside the boat.

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I'll agree that they're overpriced. There's no argument in that, BUT, I have a customer that just bought a barely used 08 23LSV for $50K. I did'nt pay much more than that for mine 2.5 years ago, but it still makes me sick. This boat had a cooler built-in, and it wasn't so big that you had to use a ton of ice, like mine.


Another thing about the tower is that when you fold it down, you pull 2 pins, and can drop it down with your pinky finger because it's cable assisted. To fold mine down it takes at least 15 minutes, and I have to do this everytime I pull in my shop. Boards are already off if Im coming back, but leaving, I have to remove boards from racks, swivel racks in, remove Z5 Cargo rack (which is a PITA for 1 person), remove the 4 hand bolts from tower, put 1 towel on each side, drop each support laying the still swiveling board rack on the towel, then lower the second support while trying to hold the tower (most of the time my speakers are off, but if not, then it's about 60 extra pounds), drop the tower hoop down to a cargo bar. Back boat in or pull it out, then put it all back together. With the Malibu I'd pull 2 pins, drop the tower to the cargo bar, then pull out or back in. Tell me now that the rad a cage is better.....

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Originally Posted by kporsch

Fman, I picked up an '09 and Supra has already improved their ballast system with 3 seperate pumps (although they do use those stupid ballast timers like MC has). From rumors on the message boards it looks like they are improving the 2010's even more by adding a tank level readout on a digital dash similar to what some of the other manufactuers are already doing.

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That will be an improvement, but in my opinion the bag system needs to be eliminated in order to compete with Malibus system. I think Supra is asking for problems trying to time and fill with bags with no actual gauge sensors in the tanks. It was sweet to fill his ballast up and not loose any space in the compartments. You can even program each riders ballast settings into the perfect pass system, awesome. Supra needs to go with the hard tanks and re-design there hull to accomodate them. The bag system is out dated and has very little pro's and a lot of problems.

Just my .02, the bags will get the job done, and you can get a nice wake from it.... but to compete with Malibus/MB Sports/Mastercraft's ballast system they need to step it up!

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Originally Posted by jonyb

I'll agree that they're overpriced. There's no argument in that, BUT, I have a customer that just bought a barely used 08 23LSV for $50K. I did'nt pay much more than that for mine 2.5 years ago, but it still makes me sick. This boat had a cooler built-in, and it wasn't so big that you had to use a ton of ice, like mine.


Another thing about the tower is that when you fold it down, you pull 2 pins, and can drop it down with your pinky finger because it's cable assisted. To fold mine down it takes at least 15 minutes, and I have to do this everytime I pull in my shop. Boards are already off if Im coming back, but leaving, I have to remove boards from racks, swivel racks in, remove Z5 Cargo rack (which is a PITA for 1 person), remove the 4 hand bolts from tower, put 1 towel on each side, drop each support laying the still swiveling board rack on the towel, then lower the second support while trying to hold the tower (most of the time my speakers are off, but if not, then it's about 60 extra pounds), drop the tower hoop down to a cargo bar. Back boat in or pull it out, then put it all back together. With the Malibu I'd pull 2 pins, drop the tower to the cargo bar, then pull out or back in. Tell me now that the rad a cage is better.....

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I agree, Malibus tower will collapse very easily, cant argue with that. The tower on the Supra is a little more difficult to drop down. However, I will take the additional 15 minutes of time to remove my Z5 and drop the tower to have the cargo rack and rad-a-cage. I just like the way it looks and it feels like a stronger setup. Guess I am not a big fan of the eliptical towers, even on the new Enzo Centurion's.

Like I said, the LSV is a sweet ride, but it is lacking a lot of stuff the Supra offers. For me, the Supra fits my boating style a little better. If Supra could redesign there ballast system, it would be a better boat than the LSV. That is where they are falling short. Get rid of the bags!

Something else I liked about that Malibu: The rear hatch opens with 2 panels, then there's a center plastic panel that covers the entire engine for storage. Perfect for shoes, t-shirts, towropes, handles, etc.... Then you still had the sides that were still pretty deep to put other stuff in there.

The one thing I didn't like about the bu I worked on, was the dual bolster option. This one had a bolster for the passenger instead of wrap-around seating. That's not standard though.

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Originally Posted by Fman

I For me, the Supra fits my boating style a little better. If Supra could redesign there ballast system, it would be a better boat than the LSV. That is where they are falling short. Get rid of the bags!

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I thought the same thing about the Supra fitting me, and the Malibu didn't, but after some time in both, I just don't feel that way anymore. The attention to detail in the Supra is what has killed it for me. You really see how well something is built after you've spent 2 years in it.

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Originally Posted by jonyb

I thought the same thing about the Supra fitting me, and the Malibu didn't, but after some time in both, I just don't feel that way anymore. The attention to detail in the Supra is what has killed it for me. You really see how well something is built after you've spent 2 years in it.

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Personally, I would take your boat over that Malibu in a heartbeat even with the soft bag ballast system. I still scratch my head why Supra is not offering hard ballast tanks in 2010, they are the only wakeboard boat builder that I know of that uses fat sacs for there ballast system. You would think they would take a look around and realize they need to step it up. Trying to put gauges on a bag system is a joke, what waist of time and energy! If you are going to build something, do it the right way and be done with it.

I can guarantee people will shy away from there boat because of the ballast system, I know I almost did not purchase my Supra because of this. They did have to many other good features to offer to counter the ballast, and my criteria was just to have a boat with some type of ballast system. The Tige 22Ve I almost bought in the same price range did not even have a ballast system, which kind of blew me away they were selling a wakeboard boat with no ballast system. I know Tige uses the TAPS but it cant possibly throw as big of a wave as a boat with a ballast. They do sell the 22Ve with a ballast upgrade but its only 600 lbs which I also thought was kind of light.

Guess fairly soon Supra will put of the specs on 2010 models, should be interesting.

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Originally Posted by jonyb

Something else I liked about that Malibu: The rear hatch opens with 2 panels, then there's a center plastic panel that covers the entire engine for storage. Perfect for shoes, t-shirts, towropes, handles, etc.... Then you still had the sides that were still pretty deep to put other stuff in there.

The one thing I didn't like about the bu I worked on, was the dual bolster option. This one had a bolster for the passenger instead of wrap-around seating. That's not standard though.

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Yes, the ski lockers were deep but would not fit my surfboard or kneeboards. I liked the tray you mentioned for gloves and misc items, although all the water drips down in the tray area after people are finished boarding and gets everything wet. I put my shirt in there and it was soaking wet at the end of the day :( would not keep any towels in there, they would be soaking wet by the end of the day.

I have friends with an '07 and '08 Bu the first thing I noticed are the seats are shorter than my 21V and the illusion tower has play in it from the removable pins. I can feel it give and snatch when doing swoop combos and wake inverts. (That makes it harder on the shoulders and elbows in case you are wondering) Other than that I liked it fairly well.

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Originally Posted by FoiltechLaunch21V

I have friends with an '07 and '08 Bu the first thing I noticed are the seats are shorter than my 21V and the illusion tower has play in it from the removable pins. I can feel it give and snatch when doing swoop combos and wake inverts. (That makes it harder on the shoulders and elbows in case you are wondering) Other than that I liked it fairly well.

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What did you think about the wake quality of the Malibu compared to your Launch? If you are doing swoop combos you are obviously much more advanced of a wakeboarder than me. Sounds like the tower was not as strong as the Supra??? It was strange, we were using a much shorter rope than I do on my Supra and I was clearing the wake easily on the Malibu. I was almost getting sprayed by the prop wash I was so close, he said this is the normal length they ride at. I was riding at 75% full ballasts/50% wedge and the wake was nice.

Would you rather have a Malibu or a Supra and why?

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Originally Posted by Fman

What did you think about the wake quality of the Malibu compared to your Launch? If you are doing swoop combos you are obviously much more advanced of a wakeboarder than me. Sounds like the tower was not as strong as the Supra??? It was strange, we were using a much shorter rope than I do on my Supra and I was clearing the wake easily on the Malibu. I was almost getting sprayed by the prop wash I was so close, he said this is the normal length they ride at. I was riding at 75% full ballasts/50% wedge and the wake was nice.

Would you rather have a Malibu or a Supra and why?

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I'm actually talking about swoops on a hydrofoil.

The wake is big but a lot softer than the Supra Launch 21V wake. For what I ride now the Supra wake is better (Nice ramp with a 8" vertical wall at the top) I guess if I was still hitting wakes with a wake board I would like the Supra wake better still.

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Originally Posted by Fman

That will be an improvement, but in my opinion the bag system needs to be eliminated in order to compete with Malibus system. I think Supra is asking for problems trying to time and fill with bags with no actual gauge sensors in the tanks. It was sweet to fill his ballast up and not loose any space in the compartments. You can even program each riders ballast settings into the perfect pass system, awesome. Supra needs to go with the hard tanks and re-design there hull to accomodate them. The bag system is out dated and has very little pro's and a lot of problems.

Just my .02, the bags will get the job done, and you can get a nice wake from it.... but to compete with Malibus/MB Sports/Mastercraft's ballast system they need to step it up!

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I agree that a tank system would be better but only if it was under the floor like Epic is doing (even though I don't like the Epic wake). As for comparing to MC or Malibu (never been in an MB so I cant compare it) - they both need more weight so you end up adding sacs to the back lockers anyway. The X-star comes with less than 1000 lbs of ballast and the stock wake is a joke (although the x-star wake is one of the best in the buisiness when sacked out). Buy an MC or Malibu you end up with front and rear lockers full of bags and less storage than a current Supra.

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Originally Posted by jonyb

The eliptical tower pushes the tower speakers way back in the boat, which does two things, it blasts out the people sitting in the boat and I could not even hear the system on the wakeboard. It does 3 things, it gives you more headroom than any other boat. You can walk anywhere in that boat and not have to duck out of the way to keep from bumping your head on the speakers. That's one of the complaints with my boat. My speakers are eye-level and even with the stock junk there wasn't that much headroom. This was the upgraded system Malibu sells with the boat. Have you seen the upgraded system on the Supra's? What a joke. They're a total waste of time and money. I'm sure the Malibu system smoked anything Supra's have had.

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My '09 has a stock system that is way better than most competitor's stock steros. Is it going to win any boat stero competitions or blast out every boat at party cove? No. But it does have good clean sounding bass and tower speakers you can hear while riding. It is the only factory boat system I've seen that actually has a box for the subwoofer (not just free air crap that many others are using).

Jonyb, I have read you're negative posts about Supra here and on Wakeworld and I feel bad you got such bad boat, but I have had an opposite experience with Skier's Choice. I have owned 3 Skier's Choice boats so far (one Moomba and 2 Supra's). I have also owned a MC which had more problems than all 3 Skier's Choice boats I've owned combined. I have had very little issues with the Skier's Choice boats at all and when I did have issues I was taken care of quickly. I put 600 hrs on the new '00 Moomba and never once had to take it to the dealer. In fact all I ever had to do on that boat was standard maintenace and oil changes. I had a 21V that I bought slightly used with 39 hrs and lived 4 hrs from the closest dealer at the time. I put well over 300 hrs on that boat and only had a minor issue with the perfect pass. The closest dealer shipped me parts no charge and no questions asked and I didn't even have the warranty transferred when I bought the boat. My 09 24SSV has been good and so far I absolutely love the boat. I have ridden and spent a good deal of time in many of the other manufactuer's core wake boats and I think the 24SSV wake is one of the best in the buisiness (I like the X-star wake too, but the price difference made my decision easy).

Every company can have its problems and I hope you realize that there are people who bought MC's, Malibus, and others that have major problems with thier new boats. For example a good friend of mine bought a brand new X-2 in 07 and has already had to replace the trailer because the wheel fell off going down the interstate. It was on the standard MC single axle trailer (tandem would have been std on Supra) and was just over the 1 year warranty period. The trailer was totaled and MC did absolutely nothing to help. It ended up costing him an arm and a leg. (5K for a new trailer and over 1K for towing). After searching the teamtalk message board he found out that he was not the only one that had this same exact problem with that year trailer.

I'm not trying to bash MC just saying that each company can and will have lemons.

I understand they all have their problems, but they also have the company or dealer support to get that stuff worked out. I haven't

You've had a dealer to work through the minor issues that you've had. I haven't

I had trailer issues as well, but Boatmate stepped up and rebuilt the trailer for no charge, and even cut me a deal on extra parts that I requested (spare wheel/tire, and carrier).

I've had issues with the Roswell parts on my boat, but they stepped up and replaced them free of charge. The swivels were the first thing, and the billet mirror arm was the second. Scott said today that he was shipping the mirror arm out tomorrow for me.

Boatmate and Roswell has been excellent, but other people have had problems with them (fman). Good service comes and goes, but in my case, it never did happen with Skier's Choice.

Before you people say I'm bitching, remember that I'm only replying to what was said.

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Originally Posted by jonyb

I understand they all have their problems, but they also have the company or dealer support to get that stuff worked out. I haven't

You've had a dealer to work through the minor issues that you've had. I haven't

I had trailer issues as well, but Boatmate stepped up and rebuilt the trailer for no charge, and even cut me a deal on extra parts that I requested (spare wheel/tire, and carrier).

I've had issues with the Roswell parts on my boat, but they stepped up and replaced them free of charge. The swivels were the first thing, and the billet mirror arm was the second. Scott said today that he was shipping the mirror arm out tomorrow for me.

Boatmate and Roswell has been excellent, but other people have had problems with them (fman). Good service comes and goes, but in my case, it never did happen with Skier's Choice.

Before you people say I'm bitching, remember that I'm only replying to what was said.

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It would be nice to have a SC employee on this board to answer questions and reply to messages. I have yet to see anyone from SC on here. I have sent them a few messages via email on there website and have never recieved a reply back. Kind of a bummer.

For a while Matt Brown was a great contact for me at SC, but he informed me a few weeks back he is no longer in the same division and would not be able to answer emails. He was great, spent about 500+ hours a year on a Supra boat. Had a lot of great information, we need someone like that on this board.... that would be a great resource.

This is my first boat, so I dont have much to compare to. My dealer has been helpful for me, but so far SC in my opinion has fallen a little short just because I never hear back from them.

That's why my attitude is so poor around here. It's not hard for 1 of their customer service employee's to spend less than 1 hour on here representing their company, but what am I thinking? They don't answer the phone, emails, or anything. And when you show up in person at their place (after driving 6 hours through the mountains with a boat in tow) they say "you'll have to call a dealer".

i have done my share of complaining on the lack of quality with the supra boats and i gez you can have lemons among boats...my 09 22 ssv was one of those(have had 2 supra's prior to this boat)...everything rattled, squeeked...was not worth the $65,000 i spent on it...not even close...i was so disappointed with my boat i decided to trade it for an x-star(within 9 months!!)...i could not be more happier with my boat than i am right now!! :-D
that boat has got everything that i can ask for and more...feels very, very sturdy, the quality of the components, how it is built, totally worth the extra money.
A friend of mine has also an 07 24 GG ssv just like jonyb...and his boat is falling apart...screws just come undone out of the fiberglass..that is what happens if you don't use backingplates...he wants to get rid of his boat, but he is stuck with it...so much for enjoying time on the lake with a boat you dislike...

Thanks for the post enolten. I'm sure there are a lot more people around here like that, and they just won't admit it. Maybe I'll take pics of all the screwed up stuff on my boat and post them. I haven't done that because it's been for sale. Since it obviously isn't gonna sell anytime soon because of these issues, what's it matter>.....

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Originally Posted by enolten

i have done my share of complaining on the lack of quality with the supra boats and i gez you can have lemons among boats...my 09 22 ssv was one of those(have had 2 supra's prior to this boat)...everything rattled, squeeked...was not worth the $65,000 i spent on it...not even close...i was so disappointed with my boat i decided to trade it for an x-star(within 9 months!!)...i could not be more happier with my boat than i am right now!! :-D
that boat has got everything that i can ask for and more...feels very, very sturdy, the quality of the components, how it is built, totally worth the extra money.
A friend of mine has also an 07 24 GG ssv just like jonyb...and his boat is falling apart...screws just come undone out of the fiberglass..that is what happens if you don't use backingplates...he wants to get rid of his boat, but he is stuck with it...so much for enjoying time on the lake with a boat you dislike...

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kporsch just posted a full page message about all the problems he has had with mastercraft boats. Not knocking mastercrafts, but I think what it comes down to is all boats have there problems.

If you follow wakeworld, there are plenty of posts about problems with other boats, and yes, mastercraft, malibu, nautiques, etc... are on the lists. I do see on wakeworld, excessive posts about the Supra ballast fill systems having problems, which from '08 back was a piece of junk. I think more people are happy with there '09 fill and drain systems, and I think 2010 will have an even better system.

I have 118 hours on my Supra this year, with little to no problems. A few loose screws, but everything else has been rock solid. I have had 10+ people (teenagers) giving her a workout many times. My only two complaints have been the ballast fill system which I have redone for about $400 and it works great, and the swivel racks from Roswell which I just recieved a new set today for no cost.

I dunno, maybe I am in for a surprise, but I believe Supra makes a nice boat for a great value. People always comment on my boat when they are out on it how well made it is, and how user friendly the boat is. After spending a day in an X-15, and Malibu LSV, I would not trade my boat for either. The Supra just has to many nice features MC and Malibu dont offer or charge an arm and leg to get them put on there boats (rear facing seating options, Z5 cargo racks, rad a cage tower, pull out heaters, large "useable" ice chest/steps/air filler storage, great seat heights for taller people, stowable ski pylon. The Rad a cage tower is so much more solid than the X15 and Malibu swoop tower. The LSV did not even have swivel board racks.... all the drive trane on these boats are basically identical.

Just my .02.... bottom line, you should feel good about being in your boat when on the water... thats what it is all about.

Come on Fman..
(rear facing seating options, Z5 cargo racks, rad a cage tower, pull out heaters, large "useable" ice chest/steps/air filler storage, great seat heights for taller people, stowable ski pylon). The Rad a cage tower is so much more solid than the X15 and Malibu swoop tower

z5 cargo is an upgrade $$, rad a cage is squeeking like a haunted house, pull out heaters is an upgrade $$, icechest sucks(does on the MC and BU also), seat height in x-star is higher, tower is also higher, ski pilon on a wakeboardboat?. Let's talk about the swivelracks...how can you compare them to the racks on the MC? tighten your board with a $0.20 bungee? I know that the BU and CC also have a bungee but come on... :rolleyes:

Snap in carpet...i can't let that one go...carpet over carpet...you gotta be kiddin' me... :confused:

now to be honest...it might not be fair to compare my current x-star to my new/old 22 ssv...but.....

now if i take my x-star and if i would have paid full price, maybe i would be a little more critical towards my boat...but they dropped the price $35,000 and now i feel like i got a good deal with the quality i expect for the amount of money i paid for the boat...

i paid $65,000 for my 22 ssv last year and it definitely was not worth the money due to lack of quality for that price...

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Originally Posted by enolten

Come on Fman..
(rear facing seating options, Z5 cargo racks, rad a cage tower, pull out heaters, large "useable" ice chest/steps/air filler storage, great seat heights for taller people, stowable ski pylon). The Rad a cage tower is so much more solid than the X15 and Malibu swoop tower

z5 cargo is an upgrade $$, rad a cage is squeeking like a haunted house, pull out heaters is an upgrade $$, icechest sucks(does on the MC and BU also), seat height in x-star is higher, tower is also higher, ski pilon on a wakeboardboat?. Let's talk about the swivelracks...how can you compare them to the racks on the MC? tighten your board with a $0.20 bungee? I know that the BU and CC also have a bungee but come on... :rolleyes:

Snap in carpet...i can't let that one go...carpet over carpet...you gotta be kiddin' me... :confused:

now to be honest...it might not be fair to compare my current x-star to my new/old 22 ssv...but.....

now if i take my x-star and if i would have paid full price, maybe i would be a little more critical towards my boat...but they dropped the price $35,000 and now i feel like i got a good deal with the quality i expect for the amount of money i paid for the boat...

i paid $65,000 for my 22 ssv last year and it definitely was not worth the money due to lack of quality for that price...

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Enolton,

The Sunsport has a great ice chest, you do loose a seat because of it, but its very useable. The ice chest under the back seat is a joke, we use it for garbage. My rad a cage is rock solid, maybe you got a bad tower? I have seen the X-15 tower rattle and shake quite a bit on my friends boat. I do like the MC board racks, although JohnnyB said he saw one collapse and almost take someone out on the boat. The new Roswell swivels they sent me last week are much better and seem to be solid. Not knocking mastercraft, I think they make a great boat, but for my use, the Supra is more user friendly for my family and I. Like I mentioned, been out on an X-15 and Malibu LSV, nice boats, but I would take my Supra over them no questions asked.

Hey, maybe I should go log on to the mastercraft website like you are doing here and start talking about how happy I am with my 40k Supra 22V???? You seem to be on this board still to justify your purchase... thats a little bit of a concern. All boats will have issues, how you maintain and treat them also has something to do with how long they last.

I am glad your MC is working out for you, hopefully you get a lot of trouble free years on the water.

You are missing the point...I probably would say how happy i was with my boat if i paid $40,000 for it...but i did not pay $40,000...i expected more out of my boat for $65,000. And no i am not knocking on supra as a whole, since i have said in an earlier thread that i was very happy with my 21 V...($43,000). Price reflects an expectationlevel...my expectation was not reached by my 22 ssv.

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Originally Posted by enolten

You are missing the point...I probably would say how happy i was with my boat if i paid $40,000 for it...but i did not pay $40,000...i expected more out of my boat for $65,000. And no i am not knocking on supra as a whole, since i have said in an earlier thread that i was very happy with my 21 V...($43,000). Price reflects an expectationlevel...my expectation was not reached by my 22 ssv.

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I can understand that, the X-star is a great boat, and yes I agree, for $65k you should have no complaints about your boat. Like I said, hope your X-star meets your needs.

It's all good, and enjoying yourself on the water is what it is all about.

I just wanted to add that my tower is almost the worst one I've stood under on any wakeboat so far. I wear my kill-switch in fear of it collapsing in rough water. It flexes at least 1" next to my head. In the driver's seat, the tower and window block my vision to the side of the boat. That's where it flexes 1", so imagine how much it flexes up top.....

I don't think my tower is doing that because it's defective. It's just a cheap boat.

I ride in a X-Star at least twice a week. Only because we rotate between a X-star, Launch 21V and Nautique 211. First off the X-Star's are LOUD and it takes two hands to steer the thing (Just like a X2 that we ride behind in Florida), the seats are too low to be comfortable, the seats are also very flat therefore you have to hold on to keep from sliding off. We have broken the tower at the pylon (which Took Master Craft 2 months to get fixed) This also happened at an event in Florida last year on another MC. It broke the same place. I will say it has a really nice wake, but that's all I can say good about it. It burns over 6 gallons of fuel per hour (2 gallons more than the 21V) All of us that ride even the owner of the X-star prefer the 21V or the 211 over the X-star.

Personally I have had some very major issues with my Supra, But I would never trade it for a X-star or X2. Just my .02

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Originally Posted by jonyb

I just wanted to add that my tower is almost the worst one I've stood under on any wakeboat so far. I wear my kill-switch in fear of it collapsing in rough water. It flexes at least 1" next to my head. In the driver's seat, the tower and window block my vision to the side of the boat. That's where it flexes 1", so imagine how much it flexes up top.....

I don't think my tower is doing that because it's defective. It's just a cheap boat.

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I would say it is defective, my tower is rock solid and never wobbles, shakes, or makes any noise.... I have 120 hours on my boat this year. John, hate to say it but I think you got a lemon. If your tower is that loose you need to contact SC and a dealer to have it repaired or replaced.

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Originally Posted by Fman

I would say it is defective, my tower is rock solid and never wobbles, shakes, or makes any noise.... I have 120 hours on my boat this year. John, hate to say it but I think you got a lemon. If your tower is that loose you need to contact SC and a dealer to have it repaired or replaced.

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Lets put it this way, the rubber pad under the rear leg of one of the posts (between the fiberglass and the tower) was wiggled it's way almost all the way out from under the tower.

i'm so sick and tired of you guys bitching about your problems get off the computer and go ride.i don't want to here if my boat was not broken then i would use it more bull---- you guys just sit on here and bitch becuse you don't have anything better to do.oh and by the way sc customer service is awsome on my first boat the dealer held my 20 grand and did not send it to sc until a month after the boat was done so sc gave me tower speakers and a cover for free and it was not even their fault(02 mobius) also on my second boat(07 22 ssv)i sent my boat back to the factory for some gelcoat cracks and the paddle wheel was in the wrong spot.they gave me a whole new topdeck with all the 08 upgrades such as the cupholders in the front new steering wheel new hinges and all the other 08 upgrades.also this year the carpet on one of my bunks was ripping and my bar on my platform was messed up at the dealer so they sent me a whole new platform and enough carpet to do my whole trailer not to mention other small things as well.a buddy of mine has an 05 xstar(75 grand) and has had everything and i mean everything go wrong with it and mastercraft has not warrantied hardly any of it.so quit your crying and go buy a seadoo if you don't like your boat becuse the rest of us do!

Nobody is forcing you to read this post...btw...seems like you had some issues with yours...;)

Rode on my friends 04 X-Star this weekend and it made me feel pretty good about my boat. PP was set on 20 mph. When I drove and he was riding, the boat would go to 25, then drop down to 15, then back to 25. He couldn't understand that I wasn't the one doing it. His boat has had it's fair share of issues as well, but I think has have been a lot more major than mine.

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Originally Posted by jonyb

Rode on my friends 04 X-Star this weekend and it made me feel pretty good about my boat. PP was set on 20 mph. When I drove and he was riding, the boat would go to 25, then drop down to 15, then back to 25. He couldn't understand that I wasn't the one doing it. His boat has had it's fair share of issues as well, but I think has have been a lot more major than mine.

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Hmm... you mean Mastercraft boats have problems?! thats just not possible ;).... now the question will be, how soon will his dealer take care of this problem for and how much $$$ will it cost him.

wellllll, being an 04, the only thing the dealer will cover is the front seating that's warped.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...r/DSC_7182.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...r/DSC_7183.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...r/DSC_7184.jpg


He bought the boat as a repo for pretty cheap, but all the money he's saved has been put back into it with repairs to the transmission, ballast system, then the new stereo that was installed. It has the Jabsco reversible pumps that wouldn't work, then changed impellers, then wouldn't work again, the repaired, and on and on.... Honestly, I hate this boat too :D After the last time it was repaired the mechanic didn't tighten down a hose in the bilge good enough, so he got a good distance from the ramp before the bilge was full. The possibility of having a leak in the bilge (because water was pumping out by the bilge) was wrote off because he thought there was water in the boat from a storm we just had, or leaking ballast, or something. I was on my own boat, so I have no idea what he was thinking. All I know is, my mirror arm had just broken off, and it wasn't even noon.....

Wow, those seats look pretty bad, did he store this boat outside? I know keeping them inside makes a HUGE difference in upholstry longevity and things starting to fade and not fit right. What did the dealer say caused the seats to warp?

OEM defect I believe. He just bought the boat back in the winter. It's not in the best shape, because after all it is a wakeboat. People don't take care of these boats at all. I'm not sure if he's dealing with a dealer or the manufacturer on this, but they're sending new seat frames. He'll use the existing upholestry and the work will have to be done at an upholestry shop. He didn't even notice this until I emailed him those pics.

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Originally Posted by jonyb

I just wanted to add that my tower is almost the worst one I've stood under on any wakeboat so far. I wear my kill-switch in fear of it collapsing in rough water. It flexes at least 1" next to my head. In the driver's seat, the tower and window block my vision to the side of the boat. That's where it flexes 1", so imagine how much it flexes up top.....

I don't think my tower is doing that because it's defective. It's just a cheap boat.

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To start, sorry about the typos, I am tired, and have a serious head ache, last week I did my first trick (I am new to wake-boarding and I am 41). As the day went on, I got more more courageous with my ability to jump my wake. I ended the run with a face plant and ruptured my ear! I can't sleep tonight, so I thought I share my thoughts.


Jonyb, I feel for you. As you know, I have my share of problems too, but mainly because Chicago Sea Ray is such SH#$ty dealer. I am by no means any expert at boating or boarding, but have had some pros get a tow from me. I am yet to hear any flex from my tower it seems to be rock solid.

My sister has a Malibu 08 23 Sunscape LSV. Her boat has had a fair number of problems too, several problems similar to yours. Her vinly is separating from the stitching. The boat’s fly by wire cable goes from 0 throttle to 100% and no in between. This is a nice feature in a no wake zone and when docking! The pop up red/green nav light popped up and out after the second use. A cleat failed causing the bow of the boat to float away from the dock. Fortunately, the aft cleat held just fine. Her check engine light came on after about 2 hours of use. It turned out that the shaft was not aligned. Luckily, her dealer is helping out, unlike your dealer. BTW, was your dealer Chicago Sea Ray? The only way I was able to get support was to move 1000 miles away and find a great dealer. He only sells four or five new boats a year, so he is forced to have an awesome service shop. I still have a problem with my Stereo - but it was not factory installed so I cannot blame Skiers Choice.

My Supra Sunsport 22V is my first boat. I have no idea what to expect in regards to quality, but have come to realize that none of the wake boat manufactures come close to have any sort of Six Sigma program or build enough products to truly minimize defects in engineering, defects in build, and sell enough boats to drive quality from their vendor selection. I do not know anything about Sea Ray or 4winns, but I think they sell significantly more boats that the entire wake boat builder community, and suspect (again, no data to prove) have a better quality management program. Also, our wake boats to take a beating. The are like a sports utility vehicle for the water. I am not sure how my Volvo SUV would actually survive if I took it off road everyday, but I expect a lot of things would break.

I work in the (believe or not) high tech field (yes very high tech) of factory automation. I spend a lot time helping manufactures (food, cars, paper, steel, ect...) design systems to improve productivity and decrease scrap. A boat company that has vision, should strive for six sigma in their manufacturing. A boat company that does this will be a welcome change!

Either in 2011 or 2012 I am going to buy a new (larger) boat. My only loyalty to Supra is my local dealer and wanting to support that dealer. Other than that, I am going to look at MB Sports, EPIC, Nautique, and ?? When I purchased my boat, I did not realize how important the dealer selection plays into the overall ownership experience. If I would have, I would have spent some time researching Chicago Sea Ray before I made my selection.

Sorry to hear about your problems with the dealer wadsworth. Extreme Water Sports is a Supra dealer a little farther south in Illinois, and I"ve heard a few good things about them.

Don't know what kind of problems you're having, but I'll do what I can to help if you start a new thread or PM me. I remember you're not happy with the Kenwoods, but I don't know of anyone that would be if they heard anything better. The Kenwood speakers they used in these boats were lower than entry level. If a customer walked in my shop wanting the cheapest thing I had (in a car or a boat), I still wouldn't sell those because they're awful. Not to mention, they have a paper cone, and THEIR IN A BOAT! GENIUS!

My dealer wasn't Chicago Sea Ray. They aren't a very big boat dealer and I'm not going to say their name. SC is aware of them and my situation, so that's as far as I'll go with that one.

The Malibu, wow.... Sounds like a Friday-built lemon. The Malibu's I've been in were built very well. I'm not gonna say that's the best boat out there right now, but they all have their fair share of problems. What makes the difference is if the dealer is there to support you and keep it a pleasureable experience. Owning a boat is work. I spend a lot of time just getting mine out of the garage, hanging the speakers, removing and reinstalling the fabric on the Z5, covering it up when we're at the campground, trying to keep the cover clean and everything else on the boat in good shape. We shouldn't have to worry about everything else.....

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Originally Posted by jonyb

Sorry to hear about your problems with the dealer wadsworth. Extreme Water Sports is a Supra dealer a little farther south in Illinois, and I"ve heard a few good things about them.

Don't know what kind of problems you're having, but I'll do what I can to help if you start a new thread or PM me. I remember you're not happy with the Kenwoods, but I don't know of anyone that would be if they heard anything better. The Kenwood speakers they used in these boats were lower than entry level. If a customer walked in my shop wanting the cheapest thing I had (in a car or a boat), I still wouldn't sell those because they're awful. Not to mention, they have a paper cone, and THEIR IN A BOAT! GENIUS!

My dealer wasn't Chicago Sea Ray. They aren't a very big boat dealer and I'm not going to say their name. SC is aware of them and my situation, so that's as far as I'll go with that one.

The Malibu, wow.... Sounds like a Friday-built lemon. The Malibu's I've been in were built very well. I'm not gonna say that's the best boat out there right now, but they all have their fair share of problems. What makes the difference is if the dealer is there to support you and keep it a pleasureable experience. Owning a boat is work. I spend a lot of time just getting mine out of the garage, hanging the speakers, removing and reinstalling the fabric on the Z5, covering it up when we're at the campground, trying to keep the cover clean and everything else on the boat in good shape. We shouldn't have to worry about everything else.....

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Yes, Dealers are key to your boating experience. If I did not move and find a great local dealer, I would have sold my boat and probally would never returned again as a boat owner.