Hydraulic/ Electric Wake plate upgrade

Hi as the weather turns colder and it becomes apparent that there will not be too many more days on the water this year, I start to think about projects for the off season.

My main goal for the boat this winter is to convert the manual wake plate to a powered wake plate. I really like the idea of the Lenco electric actuators but know that the bennet hydraulic are the tried and true.

If you have upgraded I would like to see/ hear how you did it and what you used. I would also appreciate some pictures of the newer boats factory setup if possible.

Thanks
Derrick

I will be doing the same thing to my Comp this winter. Decided to go hydraulic. While the Lencos may be easier to install, I read too many posts on line where the motors failed. Makes sense because the motor and all controls are in the actuator. If the seal fails, the unit fails. Bennett also has a specific replacement kit for bottom mount plates, like mine and I assume, yours. The entire Bennett kit is $500, plus another $120 if you want the indicator. I plan on taking out the interior for some repaint and repair work, so that should save a little on the install price.

Where did you find the bennet kit?

Saw one on their web site and then called and spoke to customer service. They will fabricate the hinge for bottom mount in stead of transom mount. The two actuators mount where the manual tab adjustments mount on the transom. However due to the length of the actuators, it appears I will not get as much up deflection as I wanted, as in position for a surf wake. Still better than manual adjustment.

Mine is a Bennett and I would highly recommend them as a brand choice. Their customer service is one of those 'WOW' experiences.

Mikey does yours use a single switch and do you have the indicators? If not do you wish you did have the indicators?

Single switch, no indicators. I can tell pretty easily by either driving and looking at the wake shape (set and forget for the session), or else the motor makes a different noise when high or low-point is reached. I have learned how many seconds that takes and can adjust accordingly. :)

Thanks for the info guys

96 Comp..we need to see more pics of your boat..she looks sweeet! Jet

Has anyone out there replaced the fixed trim plate with a hydraulic one? I'd really like to be able to control the trim a bit.

Do you need a seperate thread or can I combine u with this one:
http://supraboats.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=7678

Call Bennett they can get you a conversion / upgrade package. They have great service

Will do. Taking it out this weekend. Getting close to the end of the season! Jet - the pics in the link shows someone surfing without a rope. Is that behind a Comp? Please say yes!

Yes..I mean no. Diff supra. you can only surf behind mine with a rope. Sorry dude. :(

Does adjusting the wake plate make much difference? I haven't messed with mine at all, it's pretty much set straight back.

Adjusting the wake plate makes a huge difference. We do a lot of skiing and wakeboarding, if the wake plate is in the wrong position for whatever activity we are doing there is no doubt I will drop the line and change it. On our boat I adjust it so there is only about a finger width between the jam nuts for wakeboarding, and 2 1/2 finger widths for skiing.

well, i went ahead and built a power wake plate. We'll see how well it ends up working....

modifying the plate itself (I didn't want to torque it if the motors ran at different speeds, also i might be able to adjust the side to side trim a bit, although the 2 halves are very close together, so that may not work)


http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...nymax/tab1.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...nymax/tab2.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...nymax/tab3.jpg


http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...x/172ae23f.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...x/783f0f3f.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...x/b78acb05.jpg

and mostly finished:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...x/bcbc8a1b.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...x/5eb8e605.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...x/9a15903b.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m...x/fd399151.jpg

video in action, I know the left actuator sounds pretty chunky. (the actuators are cheapo used ebay units, because I wasn't sure whether this would even work. if they fail, I'll buy 2 new ones, since replacing them is pretty easy)

76a04b2b.mp4 video by shinymax - Photobucket


I think it came out great, hope it works as well in the water as it does on the trailer....

thoughts? I am a little worried that I have to much downward deflection available, so I'll just have to be careful about that.

That's one hell of a DIY project! Good work, hopefully those actuators hold up for ya under water and under pressure

Very creative project (and use of extensions). Let me know how the split tabs work for trimming list side to side. Also, how much spray you get when actuated together and differentially? I'm doing something similar (cut off old beat up plate, bolted on new hinge and plate with 2 actuators), but haven't yet decided if I want to split my plate.

Good job & good luck.

yeah, currently my biggest fear is that the split or the extensions will put up a ton of spray and drench the rider, but there's only one way to find out!

Boat goes in the water in just under 2 weeks...

I was originally not going to split the plate, but I was worried that the actuators wouldn't move at exactly the same speed, and the twist would cause damage to the plate or, much worse, the hull. I picked up a sheet of aluminum to make a replacement stock-setup plate, in case it all goes terribly wrong :p

When surfing, the supras they like the plate to be about 70-90% in the up position for a bigger wave, and the down position will flatten out the wave. Yours seams to be limited in the upper positions because of the long arms. Im worried this might FLATTEN the wave for you. Does anybody else see this problem? Jet

Keep us posted! I do really want to split my plate, but the spray issue concerns me.

If I can find the right material (scrap ballast bag?), I'm thinking of fabbing a flexible rubber "deflector" sheet to span the gap. Idea is to force the spray down & back instead of shooting a rooster tail out the side. You can build in enough slack to just stretch tight at full differential deflection & then have a loose loop on top when parallel - might look goofy, but functional?

Still not convinced how much effect split plates will have on list trim since they're centered on the hull, but I want to find out. Could be a cool way to help tweak a surf wave. I also am concerned about accidentally torquing the plate & ripping things apart. Sure, I could just wire both actuators to a single switch, but where's the fun in that???

That's one of the things I like about these projects - a chance to be creative & try things (like Oldman's rebuild).

I think Mastercraft is using a twin plate setup on some of their boats this year specifically for surfing. Also, if you are using two electric actuators, you will probably want two separate switches. The motors may not move at exactly the same speed, and the plates will end up at different levels (really bad if you are doing this with a single plate). I like the idea of the separate plates for surfing and the idea about putting a piece of ballast bag material in the middle sounds good to keep the spray to a minimum. I am really interested to see how this works for you. Good luck!

Matt, I don't want to hijack - but can I piggy back?

Looks like you've got "long" Lenco's, thus the need for the extensions (creative solution btw). I've got "short" Lectrotabs with only 1.5" of travel (knew I had limited space under the platform). My question is how should I allocate my travel. I think most factory plates are set up not to extend down past parallel with the hull bottom & remember from another post that the upward travel is ~ 1.25". I'm leaning towards 1/4" down & 1-1/4" up, but wonder if I should go 1/2" down & 1" up to give differential actuation a better chance at working? But I don't want to limit my upward travel in case that extra 1/4" makes a difference in letting the rear end sink down for wake board/surfing? Let me know how your sea trials go - I'm anxious to drill some more holes in my boat.;)

Yeah Purple, the MC's surf tabs are located farther apart which gives them more leverage to work with. Also, the newer v-drive crossover hulls have more of a vee so they list side to side easier. Don't know how much effect split tabs will have on list control since they're in the center of a hull that is basically flat at the transom (originally built for flat ski wakes) - but we'll find out.

piggyback away ;) I'm always happy to hear thoughts/questions/etc.

I am not sure about the allocation of available trim. I honestly just guessed, and basically set my system up so that just-up-from-horizontal was near the middle position on the actuators. Jet, you may be right, but I believe I have more "up" available on these than I ever used on the manual adjusters. The manual states that it should be horizontal for slalom, should never go below horizontal, and should also never be raised more than a half inch. Maybe they just say that because in 1987, nobody wanted a big wake, but I have way more than a half inch available, I think. As I look at the pictures I took, they really don't seem to show a good look at what the extremes are, I'll try to take a pic when I'm back up at the lake this weekend.

If my allocation is WAY off, i can always drill out the rivets and move the extension arms, or just re-drill them.

It probably would have been smart of me to do some testing to figure that all out before I installed these, but the lake was still frozen, and I was impatient!

Thanks for the ride;) I removed my plate, cut it in half, & re-pinned the halves back on the hinge. I'm waiting for Viper to send me two correct platform angle brackets so I can finish the platform install and see exactly how much room I've got for the actuators underneath.

Think I'm gonna play it safe & run 1.25" up and .25" down. I've got a .25" gap between the plates & with only 1.5" of differential, it looks like the spray may not be too bad & the platform may help. Won't know till it hits the water, but I'll wait on the spray guard until I know it's necessary - I'm sure it can be done if needed.

I think there was reasoning behind the limits in the original manual. Down past parallel really pushes the nose down since these old hulls already have a hook (reverse rocker) built in. Since the original plate was solid and only flexed, too much up travel may try to rip out all those mounting screws in the pocket - not a concern with a true hinge.

Did you thru-bolt your top actuator mounts?

yeah, i think i read somewhere that excessive nose-down trim make the boat likely to take water over the bow, and also makes it hard to control. I guess I'm used to outboards, where if you trim the nose down too much the ride sucks and the boat is slow, but nothing really 'bad' happens. I will have to do some testing!

I did not thru-bolt the actuators, I just uses some beefy stainless screws. The manual for the tabs doesn't talk about thru bolting, and where mine mount, it's not particularly easy to get in there at the back either.

I finished drilling 15 holes in my transom for the new thru-bolted platform brackets last night, so what's 8 more holes for the actuators? My original turnbuckles were thru-bolted so gonna do the same for the actuators this weekend. The manual for mine says to screw to the transom as well, but at 700-1000 lbs rated force each, I'm gonna play it safe. Hopefully I do it right (5200, backer plates, washers, & nylocks) because you're right - once the gas tank and ski locker go back in, it won't be convenient access.

how did you get the ski locker and gas tank out? It wasn't obvious how mine is supposed to come apart, it seems like the ski locker is sort of trapped in place by the upper deck unless i pulled the rear seat out. I didn't really try very hard to figure it out though.

Anyway, just got back from my first test drive. Spray is a complete non-issue. High-speed stability is VASTLY improved, to the point where i can comfortably max it out now (it hits around 45 wide open).

It appears that I pretty much blew it on "trim allocation" though. at full nose-up trim it's less nose-up than it was before the actuators, and one quick tap down from there is all the nose-down it will ever need (although I was the only one in the boat, with a full back seat, I estimate that i might want at most 1/3 of the nose-down that I currently have available). Beyond that the ride gets rough and handling rapidly starts to suffer. On the plus side, even trimmed full-down, I didn't feel like it was handling dangerously, nor anywhere near sinking the bow. Just harsh over the small waves on the lake, and with kind of a sluggish wallowing feel to the handling.

I tried trimming the 2 tabs in opposite directions. It did make a difference, but not a very big one. It will probably be useful for fine-tuning the wake for symmetry, but it seems extremely unlikely that it'd sink one corner far enough to make a surfing wake. The tabs are just too close together and near the centerline.

So, I need to drill a few rivets out and move the extensions back a bit to adjust my trim allocation. I think what I have is probably something like from 1 inch down to 1 inch up, and what i need is more like .25 down (at most) to 1.75 up. Should be a pretty easy afternoon job, but I left my riveter at home, so it'll have to wait!

Well, turns out that my dad (being the handy guy that he is) happened to have a pop riveter up at his place, which is where my boat lives. So I moved the arms, and now my adjustment goes from about dead-flat to ~2 inches up. Hopefully it won't rain tomorrow, and I'll get a chance to test it out again.

Thanks for the feedback - great news. Glad the spray is a not issue (not even the extensions?). I got mine mounted over the weekend. Actually ended up like you (great minds think alike?) - parallel at full down, 1.75" up at the trailing edge at full up. Figured I'd stick with the factory ranges to start with & easier to just add a spacer if I wanted to shift the travel downward.

Rear access for the thru-bolting was easy for me - I'm wrapping up a full cap-off resto, so there's still nothing back there.

Yeah, as far as spray is concerned, you can't even tell there's anything different. I guess maybe if it does spray, it just hits the swim platform or something. I haven't ridden behind it yet, so my only view is from the driver's seat.

Makes sense with the ongoing resto, if I had easy access I would definitely have thru-bolted, I just gambled a bit on it not being worth the extra effort. Since the extensions act like levers, the actual load seen by my rams should be significantly lower as well, I think.

How did this end up working out for you guys?

functional, but in the end i mostly set it where I like it an leave it there. I used to trim the nose down a hair to help avoid porpoising at high speeds and then back up for wakeboarding, but the lake i'm on now (lake austin) rarely has conditions that let me really open it up anyway. Also, one of my cheapo ebay actuators crapped out. All together i'd say it was a successful project, but it doesn't buy you all that much.