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Travis' 1984 Supra Rider
Ok everyone. After months of slacking-off (and snowy, cold weather), I finally got out and took some pics of the "new" boat.
Thanks to all who gave advice when I was seeking opinions on which boat to get.
I settled on the 84 Rider in Texas. It's in really rough shape, the motor needs to be rebuilt, the interior is gone, and it's missing a few things. Accordingly, the price was cheap ($1,500), and the guy I bought it from re-did the main stringers from the ski pole back. So all-in-all, not too bad. It's kind-of an unusual set-up as it has a Chevy 350 in it. It was my understanding most of these boats had either a Ford 351 or Chevy 454. It def looks like the motor was transplanted out of a truck/car. I don't mind though 350 parts are super cheap so I can def make it work.
The big expense ended-up being the trip to get it. I'm all the way up here in MT, so it was lots of gas, several spare tires, and a few wheel bearings to get her all the way home. I felt pretty crazy driving all that way, but I just absolutely could not find something in my price-range nearby.
Once it got here, the snow came soon after so I didn't have much time to get anything done. I also used-up all of my boat budget on the trip, so I didn't have any $ left to get to work on it. I'm expecting my tax refund in the next few weeks though, so that should get me goin on it.
Yesterday though I went out to get some pics and take the motor out for the rebuild. I don't plan on getting everything done this spring, just enough to get it on the water and have some fun this summer. My plans for this spring are:
Rebuild the motor.
Fab a temporary plywood floor.
Find a gas-tank.
Get it in the water, and start working-out some kinks...
and of course, lots of wakeboarding!!! :)
I'll post-up my pics as soon as I get home from work.
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Here she is sitting out at my dad's place after her long journey up from TX:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10439.jpg
Note the makeshift "tower" lol! Not sure what was going on here. Poor boat definately saw lots of saltwater use though.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10443.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10441.jpg
He left the engine sitting on a pallet for me after the stringer job so I could just take it right back out for the rebuild.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10442.jpg
As you can see most of the interior is gone, and what's left is in really rough shape. Some would see this as a bad thing, but I'm thinking of it as a blank canvas, so I can pretty much do whatever I want with it.
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Got her hooked-up and ready to pull over to our makeshift "engine removal area".
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10445.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10444.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10447.jpg
Our chainhoist set-up for lifting the engine out.
I was a little sketched-out but my pops is confident we wont pull the trees down.
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Ok. Got it home and into the garage. Time to start some tear-down.
As you can see the thing was most-likely used in the saltwater. It came from the Corpus Christi area. Lots of corrosion, some of the bolts are stainless, some are not. It's debatable if this is actually a marine engine or not. I think the carb and distributor are automotive. It does have a Marine engine tag on the intake (last pic), but that could have been just stuck on there.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10455.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10456.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10457.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10465.jpg
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I took the trannie off first:
Here without the starter:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10466.jpg
A few bell-housing bolts and a little muscle later:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10471.jpg
Don't forget to take the dust shield off, it wont come off otherwise hehehe...
The flywheel after the "coupler" was removed:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10473.jpg
With the flywheel off. Yep, two-piece rear-main seal.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10475.jpg
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http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10478.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10481.jpg
I'm going to take the other riser/manifold off next, as well as the intake, and heads. Hopefully tonight, we'll see if I have time.
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Wow great pics! We will be watching!
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You're a brave man, good luck
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I'm thinking those exhaust manifolds are probably REALLY full of rust. You'll have to repaint them (probably would anyway.) but I'd probably let them sit in an electrolytic tank for a couple of days and get creative with how you make some electrodes.
I'd get yourself a big plastic bin as this method is going to REALLY help you out with your engine mounts and all kinds of other parts.
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/ru..._derusting.htm
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Yeah, there is def some rust inside the manifolds. My concern was more with cracks, and wall-thickness. Like with the risers, even if I did some good brazing and fixed the cracks, the interior walls are corroded down to nothing.
Thanks for the link on the rust removal, I'll def be looking through that. I'm planning on wire-brushing then painting everything as it is, but that method might help with the spots that are hard to reach (like the inside of the manifolds).
ngavdba:
As a matter of fact there were several blow-outs along the way, and a couple of wheel bearings. I sent my dad down (cause he had some time off work) with a few spare tires/wheels.
Maybe the XL is Chevy 350... I dunno... It's hard to tell if that's the original motor or not. Like I said, the carb and distributor look to be automotive style, but I'm not 100%. About half of the bolts are stainless, and the rest aren't.
Yeah, this one def didn't have an easy life. I'm not sure what they were using it for, it has this tall pole basically strapped to the original ski pole. You can see it in some of the pics. The pole is made of regular steel, and rusted like a mo-fo. I can't see it supporting towing without ripping out of the floor. So, it's kind-of a mystery unless they had it strapped to the bow or something. Still, I can't imagine the ocean is the best place to board, ski, tube. So choppy... There is lots of corrosion on stuff that isn't even regularly in-contact with the water (motor mounts ect). Must just be lots of salt in the air, and it attacks everything.
It's been sitting outside in the elements here too, but honestly, it can't really get any worse if you know what I mean. So, until I finish the floor, put the motor back in and stuff she'll prob be sleeping outside.
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Ahh, I love me some boat pics. And restoration pics are the best. I love seeing someone take something old, tired, worn out, and make it good again. Welcome to the Supra club and thanks for the pics. Keep them coming and congrats on your new boat.
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the shape of that hull just looks tough, I love that boat, you'll have a great time bring'in her back....
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I disagree with the general concept that a boat must be stored inside to be well maintained. But I dont really want to argue about it. I do not so lucky as to have indoor storage but I certainly do not mistreat my baby.
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I'm in the same situation as Mikey. My garage isn't big enough for the saltare but it gets covered and lovingly dried out VERY often.
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Ok guys. Last night I took off the other manifold, distributor, carburetor, valve covers, and intake. I took some pics and will try to post them tomorrow. I'll be taking off the accessories on the front, and then the heads to see what kind of shape the bottom end is in. Mainly I want to see what kind of shape the pistons are in, as well as have the block tanked. The guy I bought it from didn't know anything about the boat, he just picked it up from some old guy cause it had been just sitting. He didn't know what kind of shape the engine in, he said it needed to be rebuilt, but wasn't sure why. He said he thinks it got overheated, which normally isn't catastrophic but can be. Worst-case I might have some broken pistons, but at the least I think I'll do main bearings, rings, cam bearings, and a cam. As far as the heads go I'm gonna have the machine shop replace the seals and what-not.
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when you get to the pistons you will be able to tell if it is marine, or marinized. Look for smaller pistons than normal, and bigger rings. Especially your ring end gap will be bigger.
The reason for this is that marine engines run much cooler on the sleeves, and normal temps on the piston face. So to make sure everything fits nice they tended to run them with way bigger clearances in the hot parts.
with the vintage of the boat its possible most of your stuff is not "marine". including your dist and carb. Back in the day to be marine rated the carb just needed a bent tube for the fuel bowl vent. Even then not every boat had that.
There was very very little on my 77 nautique that was actually "marine".
Hopefully you dont find too many surprises in that motor. You can get a new set of manifolds and risers off ebay for decently cheap. I would look at going that route. I have JB welded split risers before and they held up fine. Yours are split a lot more though. You would want to consider stitching them first. There is very little (if any) pressure built up int he system by the time it gets there anyway, so they dont need much. Just the heating and cooling off them will be your enemy.
I have a similar trailer story with my nautiques purchase. Now that I look back on it though that was an adventure that I wouldnt trade for anything.
Have fun
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I mentioned it in other threads, but what the heck?
I bought her without the swim platform, and am planning on making one out of teak. What are the chances someone could measure theirs for me? Maybe a couple of pics? Thanks.
Also still looking for a prop if anyone has something... Thanks!
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Sometimes you can find them on ski-it-again.com...
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OK guys here are some more pics.
I'm making a list and checking it twice... Some things I'm gonna need to get this thing running and in the water. If anyone can think of anything else I will need please let me know. So far...
Risers
Impeller
New hoses
Propeller
Prop shaft packing? (Where's the best place for this? Maybe a thread on how to do it?)
Anyways, here are the pics.
Removing the thermostat housing. Not much left of a thermostat.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10490.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10491.jpg
Without the carb:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10487.jpg
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Put her on the engine stand, and took the heads off. There was some water in a couple cylinders maybe just from sitting. The head gaskets were in good shape, as well as the intake gaskets. Not sure how else the water would get in there. Condensation perhaps.
Looks pretty rough, I think it'll clean up alright though. I'm gonna pull the pan and timing cover to make sure the bottom-end is good. The heads are gonna go down to the shop to have new valve seals installed and check for cracks ect.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10506.jpg
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10507.jpg
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Good luck with the motor rebuild! As far as your question about prop shaft packing, call skidim.com and ask for the packing for your particular setup. It's only a few dollars, and there are instructions that come with it. You simply cut enough to wrap around the prop shaft and push it in. It's not much more complicated than that.
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ditto to Titan on the shaft packing, many threads here on its replacement. Looks like that carb is a 4160.....she'll looks sweet all cleaned up...
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Ok, so some more work put in.
Did some research, that carb is a 4150 (the 4160 has vacuum secondaries). So it could be just about any size (CFM wise). Got the raw water pump all painted-up w/ some new stainless bolts. Got the thermostat housing all cleaned-up and painted.
I'm gonna drop a bunch of parts off to be blasted hopefully this week. Then I can get them painted-up.
Now for the bad news. The block is in-fact cracked so I've been looking at a few options for that.
The guy at the local machine shop quoted me 200-250 for a bare block all machined and ready for build so I think that's pretty good. I couldn't find a short-block (new) for less than $800, and long blocks were like $1300 min, so prob will get the bare-block and put my parts in it.
I've heard of a technique called "stitching" which is supposedly very effective, for fixing cracks in cast but... yeah prob end-up buying the bare block.
Or there is a guy in my area selling a 383 for $1500 on craigslist. :twisted:
I'll post some more pics soon.
Has anyone thought of some other parts I might be forgetting? I would like to put one big order in a skidim or the like soon. So let me know if I'm forgetting something please.
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I got my longblock 351 on Craigslist for $900, still plastic wrapped from the rebuild factory that had closed down.
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stitching is a patch job. it can hold up for many many years, and is an acceptable means to do that. But, if your getting a block that is ready for rebuild so cheap you may as well go that way. It will cost you more to get the block that needs stitching repaired and ready.
Hope that helps
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Start looking for another parts boat with a good driveline but bad interior, stringers.... Have seen some for $800.00 on CL. Never a bad idea to have too many parts on hand. NTM marine parts will get pricy very quickly, I bet the maninfolds and odds ands on the exhaust will be more than $800.
When you are done you can sell of all the unused parts and put some money back in your pocket.
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It's a good thought DAFF, but unfortunately there are no old Supras in my area. I looked and looked forever just to find this one.
My budget is very limited (I know, not a good boating combination), so I'm trying to save $ wherever I can by puting-in the labor myself.
Anyways, I called the machine shop to see how my heads were coming along only to find-out that they have soft valve seats. So... basically my block is cracked, and my heads are no good... sounds like time for a different engine to start-over with.
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After searching craigslist for several days and finding nothing promising, cept for a few used "350s" that turned out to be 305s! (Check casting numbers!)
My co-worker asked if a 400 would work because he had seen a few for sale.
For those who don't know a 350 and a 400 are almost identical. The primary difference (besides the displacement) is the fact that the 400 is externally balanced whereas the 350 is internally balanced. All of the accessories, manifolds, intake, trans, ect bolt right-up.
Long story short, I picked-up a used Chevy 400 small-block which I think is gonna work really nicely!
I decided to buy my own sandblaster ($150) since all the places that quoted me were too expensive ($250+).
I don't have any pics of the 400 yet (it's nothing to look at anyway) but I do have some pics of my carb rebuild. So, here ya go...
Cleaned and Painted the float bowls. Lot's of time spent with a Dremel LOL!
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10508.jpg
Completely disassempled the throttle-plate and wire-brushed with the Dremel, then painted the linkages.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10510.jpg
I brushed and sanded the metering blocks...
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10511.jpg
Assembled without the throttle-plate...
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e9...s/SDC10512.jpg
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Looks great! Keep us up-to-date as you make progress.
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looking good man. you got a looonnnngg way to go but it looks like your going to get there a day at a time!
Keep the pics coming.. most of us had a running boat that was used every summer and just tore it apart.. Your build is like building an old hot rod that you found in a barn! :cool:
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Looks great. Although it doesn't look like a standard marine carb - no j-tube vents (skidim has em for $8 ea if you wanna be marine legal), dual metering blocks, etc. I really like how you left the aluminum bare.
I just rebuilt my 4160, but it didn't clean up near as nice even after 4 days disassembled in a bucket of carb cleaner (dang EPA - that stuff used to strip off paint!). I may just hit it with the dremel wire brush & ghetto paint the whole thing.
Again, great job!
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Yeah, I tried to just soak it first, but it didn't really do anything.
I spent quite a bit of time on it with the Dremel w/ wire brush. I used some rattle can paint and did LOTS of thin coats. Honestly it will probably flake off after a couple of hours of use but I couldn't just stick a nasty looking carb on there.
I also wire brushed and painted the raw water pump and thermostat housing. I'll post some pics of the pump when I get the new impeller.
If I can find a big enough air compressor I'll be sandblasting the rest of the engine acc. this weekend. I also want to blast and put some fresh paint on the "new" 400 and the trans.
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Think my carb's staying raw. Never seen a carb paint job hold up too well & flaked paint ends up looking worse than rust and oxidation, but sounds like you prepped it good so hopefully you'll have better luck. Just gonna pain me to put an ugly carb back on top of a new polished aluminum intake.
Sounds like we're working the same schedule. My old 5 hp Craftsman compressor will almost keep up with my cheap a$$ sandblaster using Lowe's playsand. Blasted and painted all the accessories last weekend & assembled the raw water pump last night (had to cut a new thrust plate gasket). Hope to blast & paint the engine/trans this weekend & start reassembly next week.
Keep up the good work!
