Rudder at the bottom of the lake

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07-12-2011, 07:49 PM
stinky_1

Rudder at the bottom of the lake

Hi guys. I was out with my new to me 1990 sunspot on our family holiday. The boat has always had a hard time turning right. Never paid mush attention to it. Was out tubing with the kids on a hard right turn when I hear a loud clunk. Suddenly the steering is really easy. Only problem was it wasn't turning.

We were a long way from the launch site so I had a paddle out while my wife ran the throttle

Managed to get us back on the trailer and out ofthe wTer. Sure enough the whole rudder is gone. Snapped clean off where it comes through the hull.

That was yesterday. Skidim has a new generic one for $398 or $389 US (can't remember which). I called skierschoice as well and they refered me to my local supra supplier. Their cost for the actual suprA unit is $414 cdn. Both units will require me to pay shipping fees as well. I am looking somewhere in the neighborhood of $150 for the supra one. Skidim didn't have an estimate even until it was boxed and ready to be sent

With the price being so similar I am curious which way you guys would recomend I go with this? I have no care at all to stay "factory" on this boat. Whatever works and works the best in this case. Apparently both units require me to make the hole in the hull bigger. So I don't even save anything there

Any thoughts? I want to get this sorted out pretty quick as our summers are short enough in Canada as it is
07-12-2011, 08:04 PM
mapleleaf

I went with a replacement Marine Hardware one similar to Ngav's, price in Ontario with the port and everything was $670....Seemed pricey but my boat now turns like a dream, no more bent rudder shaft binding, which is probably what was happening on yours....Only diff is a rock got mine, other then that our OEM's are in the same place!
07-12-2011, 08:24 PM
stinky_1

I figured at the end of the day it will be around $600 cdn. Not an expense I really wanted. But what can you do!?

I know I read good things about the response with the generic ones. Would you say you would rather have that one in than the factory supra one if you were to do it again? Assume everything else will be the same for cost
07-12-2011, 10:31 PM
mapleleaf

Hitting the rock cost me 2500 plus about 50 hrs of my own labour, I knew my rudder was going to have to be replaced before this incident, this just fast forwarded it. The MH rudder is more substantial and I at first thought it was going to be too much rudder, turns out it runs well and turns great and may have more structure then the OEM (time will tell). I seem to have a strange little noise coming from under the boat above 25mph, Not a bad sound just something new, I had to shim my strut to get a good drive shaft alignment and my prop was rebalanced so there's too many new parts to isolate which one is making the noise, I'm sure it's nothing bad, but it could be the turbulence created by the size of this new rudder...
If my old one had never been bent it'd be hard to say which one I like better, I bought the boat with a bent rudder...
07-12-2011, 10:35 PM
rludtke

I looked at the SkiDim rudder in the catalog, and noticed that it had the improved O-ring style of seal. I think my rudder shaft is letting in some water.So at least you would get a more modern set up.
07-13-2011, 06:45 AM
mapleleaf

Quote:

Originally Posted by rludtke

I looked at the SkiDim rudder in the catalog, and noticed that it had the improved O-ring style of seal. I think my rudder shaft is letting in some water.So at least you would get a more modern set up.

this is one of the things I like about my new rudder....
07-14-2011, 01:18 PM
riveredge

Yep the Marine Hardware one is your best bet. I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) that you can even get one just like your original, at least not for a reasonable price.

There was a thread not long ago about replacing the rudder with the current MH model, it has excellent seals and no grease fittings (time will tell whether this was a good move on their part, I don't believe in "lifetime" lubrication). Here's the thread: http://supraboats.com/bbs/showthread...rudder+packing

Skidim.com should be able to get you one for way less than $600. Mine was under $400 shipped, I think, with the 10% discount code CCFAN.

Good luck!
07-19-2011, 05:48 PM
stinky_1

hey guys, thanks a bunch for all the advice and thoughts.

I ended up going with the MH rubber through skidim. It came to $530 CDN after exchange with pretty fast shipping through UPS. They usually ship with USPS but I asked to have it sent a bit faster. They shipped it on thursday and it got here on monday. The UPS broker fee was $29. So, I am around $560 all in.

I will be doing the repair myself hopefully tomorrow
07-19-2011, 05:54 PM
rludtke

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinky_1

hey guys, thanks a bunch for all the advice and thoughts.

I ended up going with the MH rubber through skidim. It came to $530 CDN after exchange with pretty fast shipping through UPS. They usually ship with USPS but I asked to have it sent a bit faster. They shipped it on thursday and it got here on monday. The UPS broker fee was $29. So, I am around $560 all in.

I will be doing the repair myself hopefully tomorrow

Is this rudder a "slip-in" retrofit, or does the boat need to change in any way?
07-19-2011, 06:14 PM
stinky_1

It was sold to me as a "mostly" slip in. I may need to open the hole in the hull up a bit because the shaft is thicker. But the mounting plate for the top and bottom is the same bolt pattern.

After talking to skiers choice I was told that even their replacement rudder would have the same issues. They were not much more expensive for their rudder though, so the decision came down to the shipping cost, and how fast I could get it. I was looking at closer to $600 - $620 with shipping and all my taxes through the local supra dealer.

I will try and take some pics of the install so everyone can see how it actually goes.
07-20-2011, 09:54 AM
riveredge

Of course this is no guarantee, but that same rudder in my '89 was an exact fit, requiring no modification whatsoever. I used loc-tite on the set screw that holds the rudder in, since it's just that and the tiller arm clamp that hold it into the boat. The rest of the installation was quick and easy, except for laying on the floor of the boat and reaching in under the gas tank, but that's just a little uncomfortable, not complicated. No leaks, and the boat steers like brand new.

Good luck, it should be pretty straightforward.
07-20-2011, 09:56 AM
stinky_1

Thanks. I am hoping it goes easy.

I was planning on draining the gas tank and pulling it out to do this job. I have read that its possible to do it through that access in the floor but I think I would rather have all the space I need to do it through the top
07-20-2011, 10:08 AM
riveredge

If you can get the tank out, by all means, do it. I couldn't get mine out, so I settled for having it up about 4" for a little extra room.
07-20-2011, 10:52 AM
jet

Man..that sucks. I would have bought a salvage one to fix that prob.
07-20-2011, 12:48 PM
riveredge

Quote:

Originally Posted by jet

Man..that sucks. I would have bought a salvage one to fix that prob.

A salvage tank? I put the old one back down to its original position after installing the rudder, I just couldn't get it all the way out of the boat, or at least not without WAY more effort than just working underneath it with it raised up a little.
07-20-2011, 03:01 PM
pwildbil

My 92 Comp steers hard to the right also.....Now i'm a little worried.....Stinky_1 or anyone else any idea what caused this??? I am gonna take a look at mine tonight when I get home.
07-20-2011, 03:53 PM
riveredge

Right hand rotation (at the prop) tends to turn harder to the right anyway. But if you want to check out your rudder, grab it at the bottom and work it back and forth, it should have little to no play. Mine was actually bent and cracked where the shaft meets the rudder, which is why I replaced it; it also had probably 1/8" of movement at the bottom of the rudder port.

Yours may just need new packing, or grease, to improve your steering feel. Most rudders will have a little play, unless they're brand new.
07-21-2011, 05:56 PM
DAFF

Power turns are mostly done to the right hand side... Keep those shafts lubed with some high quality marine grease!!! Nothing better to keep the seal water tight and EZ to turn. Also watch out for bent bolts and the marine plywood rot on the upper portion of the shaft hole.
07-22-2011, 09:26 AM
riveredge

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAFF

Power turns are mostly done to the right hand side....

True with a LH rotation prop, but it's easier to the left, with a RH prop. Your 86 is probably LH like the 85 I had, but my 89 is RH. Of course rudder tuning is a factor too.

And good advice on the bent bolts, rotten wood, grease, etc... it's an often-neglected part of the boat!
07-23-2011, 06:57 PM
stinky_1

wow, I missed a lot in the last week.

I know mine was turning to the left because my front fins are actually bent. I never noticed it before. I am suspecting that the previous owner had the boat rocking in the waves on the shore at some point. They are turned out to the right and curled a bit as well. This made the boat steer to the left at higher speeds. The rudder had to be turned 90 degrees off center to compensate and drive straight. I believe this to be why I had a hard time turning right.

I have 2 theories why my rudder broke.

1) Because the fins were riding on the rocks I think the rudder was as well. This put stress cracks in it. By having the boat wanting to turn left, and me doing a very hard right at speed it just bent those cracks open more and broke the whole thing off.

or

2) I hit a stick of some sort, it got into my prop which wedged it into the rudder and broke it off. I do have an extra ding in the prop now, but its hard to say for sure. What I do know is that I did not "see" any driftwood or sticks in the water in front of me just before it happened. So I am leaning towards #1.

I took some pics of the removal and install. Ill post them up in a minute
07-23-2011, 07:06 PM
stinky_1

Here is a shot of the inside before I took the rudder out

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/IMG_2569.jpg

Removal was VERY easy. Took the 4 bolts out, loosened the packing nuts and hit it a few times with a hammer from the underside while I pryed up from the inside to give it some extra motivation. It slipped right out quickly.

Here is the hole after it was out

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/IMG_2571.jpg

I cleaned up the silicon on the bottom side and test fit the new one. Lucky me there was no drilling or making the hole in the hole bigger at all. It fit right in first try!

Here is a shot of the new one installed

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...1/IMG_2572.jpg

I put a ton of silicon in there to make sure it was sealed up. One thing I noticed was that my steering wheel was not straight when the rudder was. I had to adjust it on that knuckle to be correct. Looking at the pics I can see that the original rudder was off set to the rear a little bit when the wheel was straight. So it makes sense that I had to bring the shaft in a bit to match up right.

In the end this was a pretty easy job. getting to the tank was simple as pie. It came out easy as well. While I have this off I am going to grab some measurements and build my bracket for my DIY Wedge and get that in there. Hopefully it will be done on monday or tuesday. Look for those pics later.