new engine build or buy long block ?

[lively]

Here's more or less the parts for what I would build...

Clevite Engine Parts CB831P - Clevite P-Series Rod Bearings - $55.76
Clevite Engine Parts MS1432P - Clevite P-Series Main Bearings - $52.97
Clevite Engine Parts SH510S - Clevite Camshaft Bearings - $25.97
Fel-Pro 17360 - Fel-Pro Performance Marine Intake Gaskets - $24.97
Fel-Pro VS50068R - Fel-Pro PermaDry Valve Cover Gaskets - $10.97
Ford Performance Racing Parts M-6051-CP331 - Ford Racing Performance Cylinder Head Gaskets - $76.97
Ford Performance Racing Parts M-6710-A351 - Ford Racing Oil Pan Gaskets - $22.97
JE Pistons S100S8-40305 - JE Pistons Pro Seal Premium Sportsman Series Piston Rings - $99.46
Melling IS-83 - Melling Heavy-Duty Intermediate Driveshafts - $12.97
Melling M83 - Melling Oil Pumps - $41.97
Sportsman Racing Products 149606-8 - SRP Ford Small Block Dish Top Pistons - $619.68
Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51400510 - Trick Flow® Roller Rocker Arms - $289.97
Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51410002-M61 - Trick Flow® Twisted Wedge® 170 Cylinder Heads for Small Block Ford - $1,125.00

Part Subtotal $2,459.63

You'll be + $200 for cam and lifters, and about another $100-$200 for pushrods, gaskets, misc bits. Machine work pricing is highly variable depending on region, as well as what your engine needs. $500-$1000 is my guess. So $3500-$4000 to do it with nice heads. Can probably shave about $500 cutting corners on parts, but I would want to build a solid bottom end as top priority as top end is quicker and easier to change is desired.

Anyhow... Some numbers for power and compression with two different cams and zero deck vs .013 in the hole.

Comp XE 262/270 .013" piston to deck


Comp XE 262/270 zero deck


Comp XE 256/262 .013" piston to deck


Comp XE 256/262 zero deck


The 262/270 is about as big a cam as I'd go for a towboat with stock manifolds and displacement. Idle will be slightly higher than stock and slightly noticeable but should not be too obnoxious in a 351w. The 35-235-3 XE 4x4 cam is interesting too Sacrifices some top end HP but more HP at lower RPM and slightly flatter torque curve.
Comp has some "marine" grinds there's not split duration. Simple old style cams. The 31-216-2 is a 260/260 and compares to the XE256/270 but leaves at least 10 hp and ft/lbs on the table at all RPM and doesn't have quite the potential when uncorking the exhaust. The 31-218-2 is a 268/268. I'd expect it to maybe have a slightly rougher idle than the XE 262/270 as it has more overlap. HP is similar at peak but less at lower RPM and it's down a bit on torque from the XE split duration cams. Didn't run dynamic numbers on any of those.
Personally I'd be tempted to run the XE 256/262

Note that exhaust is the biggest restriction. I put HP manifolds in as marine pyramid exhaust flow better than logs, but a far cry from a true performance manifold or header. Changing exhaust to headers in DD is 50+ HP more with pretty much any cam.

What heads do you currently have? To get the price tag down under budget the heads are not an option. Heads and associated costs are adding about $1500 to the price tag. Machine work on your heads (cut seats, new guides, new valves if/where needed, surface if needed) I would expect to be in the $500-$700 range. Also figure on +$100 for valve springs for the cam vs the already assembled heads.

Let me know what your head castings are and if I can find flow numbers I can see what they will do. I'll also see about checking GT40 and GT40p heads.

Man that's awesome ! I have the stock CAJE or the stock Windsor heads . I was looking at dart heads by a bit pricey . I'm gonna try to stay around the $2500-3000 range . And that will leave room for new 4 blade and coupler and props shaft . I just got done installing the new tower . But I think the engine should be out in the next month . I took it out on the water today and it's idling at 10psi oil press and 45psi @ 2500 . Lol sucks but I'm milking it the most I can . Thank you so much for this info . I defiantly will use it for the final blueprint of the new engine .

[lively]

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[lively]

Ok , I'm finally ready to bite the bullet , I've been looking at mabbco motors for a short block , I think I will get one from them and install some aftermarket aluminum heads .


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[lively]

what do y'all think of these heads ? I'm thinking of a short block from mabbco motors here in Tyler , Tx .. Trying to make some decisions and order parts , I plan to pair the heads with a edlebrock rpm air gap , 1500 to 6500 rpm intake , and I have the edlebrock marine 650 I believe I'll have to look again either 600 or 650 cfm ..


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[TitanTn]

Those look fast just sitting there. Congrats.

[lively]

Those look fast just sitting there. Congrats.

Thanks man , I'm about to bite the bullet and get a YouTube feed of the install , Livelyprojects is my YouTube account .

But I still have some adjusting to do for shaft and log alignment , and also valve train rollers vs tappet . Those heads look promising and I'm gonna build this engine right . Just need to get the concrete info on what will work cam , push rods , rockers ect .


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[TitanTn]

I'll be looking for the Youtube Channel.

Good luck on the shaft alignment. At least on my 454 it's a pain in butt. The rear is easy to adjust, but the front is a hassle.

[cadunkle]

Those heads are probably good but you can get better for the money. Scratch the RPM intake unless you actually plan to spin this to 6000+. Not a good idea for a towboat unless you're building it into a barefoot racer. The small Edelbrock isn't the best choice for a screamer either, though would do fine for a lower RPM torque build if you already have it. A cam to support that RPM would need exhaust manifolds that cost as much as your whole engine budget.

What are specs on that short block and what pistons are in it? Piston choice and piston to deck clearance as critical when doing any sort of performance build. If they are cheap builder deep dish pistons you may end up with low compression and put cam, heads, intake, etc. for higher RPM and end up with a very low power engine at any RPM. Everything must be matched to meet your goal. Typically in a wake boat you want a broad flat torque curve, not a peaky screamer that only makes power above 4 grand.

Roller cams are great in a SBF, but I thought there was a budget. The faster ramp rates that are possible can broaden the torque curve and increase peak power. Fewer worries about oil type too. Nice but really a luxury after properly matching everything else. If there's an area to spend a couple hundred more, my first choice would be forged pistons.

[lively]

Those heads are probably good but you can get better for the money. Scratch the RPM intake unless you actually plan to spin this to 6000+. Not a good idea for a towboat unless you're building it into a barefoot racer. The small Edelbrock isn't the best choice for a screamer either, though would do fine for a lower RPM torque build if you already have it. A cam to support that RPM would need exhaust manifolds that cost as much as your whole engine budget.

What are specs on that short block and what pistons are in it? Piston choice and piston to deck clearance as critical when doing any sort of performance build. If they are cheap builder deep dish pistons you may end up with low compression and put cam, heads, intake, etc. for higher RPM and end up with a very low power engine at any RPM. Everything must be matched to meet your goal. Typically in a wake boat you want a broad flat torque curve, not a peaky screamer that only makes power above 4 grand.

Roller cams are great in a SBF, but I thought there was a budget. The faster ramp rates that are possible can broaden the torque curve and increase peak power. Fewer worries about oil type too. Nice but really a luxury after properly matching everything else. If there's an area to spend a couple hundred more, my first choice would be forged pistons.

Ok , so my prob is if I call mabbcco engine where I plan to buy the short block what do I need to tell them ?

They have several options for their short blocks and long blocks , but I want power adders i.e. Intake, heads, and I want a good sounding cam , I guess they call it a "rough idle cam " ? Anyways

What do these 351w come with far as lifters ? Just flat tappets ? I know you gave me a parts list , but it's a bit much for my budget , I've got like 3500 for engine , PSS , shaft , prop . I mean I can always add$$ lol but I'm trying to stick with it.

I want 350 hp and 9000 lbs of torque ! Lol

So short block with GT 40 s ? Or what heads and what can with the short block ?

Here is the link : https://www.mabbcomotors.com/catalog...d_Warranty/210

They are local for me , and looks like some of the only ones for In stock short blocks . I don't know the specs but if you can list what I need to ask I certainly will .


Thanks for the help ! I'm ready to start another project for the sunsport !


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[lively]

Ok , so I'm gonna go forged Pistons for sure , all these engine builders or mass producing shops have such bad reviews . And lol I don't know who to trust , but for the rotating assy I have made the decision to use forged Pistons , possibly regrind crank and keep the rods unless they need to be changed . Sbfalcon on eBay has a set of 8 Pistons for $350 . And I'm looking toward the performer model of edlebrock for intake . Says 1500-5500 rpm range . .

I have some honey do's to finish with the house and then I'm gonna get the boat out from shed and pull the engine and drive . Look for updates


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