2005 22V Rough Idle and Water in Oil!!!

[Sluggo]

It has been a while since I have been on here, but did a quick search and did not really find too much about my situation unless this is coincidentally two issues happening at once.

Boat does not get used very much the last few years but we do manage to get a long weekend in each year and maybe 3-5 day trips. I have done the winterization myself via instructions from this site, so it has had fresh oil, filter, and antifreeze in it each year without issues. The only thing I would consider being abnormal of the last few years is that when we surf, the idle tends to surge when in gear to circle around to get a fallen rider. We usually have a pretty big list give people and ballast. When weighted evenly, no issue with idle. Also noticed a little steam now and then from the exhaust while surfing. The temp gauge never rises and always stays in the normal range so I didn't give it a second thought.

Anyway, 520 hours on the original engine, annual winterization with oil changes. Cap and rotor, plugs, and wires were all just replaced along with removing and cleaning the injectors trying to resolved the rough idle condition when I noticed water in oil. I just got some more time today and did a compression test and the results are in the pick below.

So my initial thought was I have a blow head gasket somehow and when I went to confirm that with a compression test, it came back what seems to me as normal for a cold engine that has not run in three weeks. Or is that not a good assumption? Can an intake gasket cause a rough idle condition? Given the I will be at least looking at removing the intake, should I go ahead and tear down the heads and get them resurfaced and cleaned up to try and get my compression back up closer to 200 or just wait until a full rebuild is required with new rings etc...

Also considering doing all this work over the winter, so I have drained the block, the cross over hose and heater lines. Do I need to blow some air through there to force more of the water out? I usually run antifreeze through it but I don't want to run it again with contaminated oil. Guess I could change the oil and run it long enough to get antifreeze through it?

Any all advice welcome...

[Sluggo]

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[MJHKnox]

Did you try to add some oil in that cylinder that is lower?

Did you ever try the compression test warm?

Oil in the water might be from intake or exhaust. Those are the easier ones to look for leaks before you get into the heads.

I would change the oil and get some antifreeze in there.

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[gogger]

I have gotten some water in my oil before by having a lot in the bilge. When you take off it all goes to the rear and the crank pulley and belt spray it every where and it goes into the intake and if it sucks enough in it will eventually get some in the water. I think they say a 10 percent difference is acceptable in the cylinders? But yes try like mark says and put some oil in the cylinder and see if it brings that one up.

May want to try changing your map sensor. When I installed the new engine it was running poorly and I changed that sensor and it ran perfectly afterwards.

[Sluggo]

I have gotten some water in my oil before by having a lot in the bilge. When you take off it all goes to the rear and the crank pulley and belt spray it every where and it goes into the intake and if it sucks enough in it will eventually get some in the water. I think they say a 10 percent difference is acceptable in the cylinders? But yes try like mark says and put some oil in the cylinder and see if it brings that one up.

May want to try changing your map sensor. When I installed the new engine it was running poorly and I changed that sensor and it ran perfectly afterwards.

So I was able to get the pressure up to 180 from 150 after adding some oil. I have never noticed an unusual amount of water in the bilge or any evidence of spraying.

So my plan at this point is to remove and replace the exhaust gaskets as well as the intake gasket. Is there a way to test the MAP sensor before replacing it? I am thinking I have two separate problems here unless someone has experienced a rough idle or loss of a cylinder or two due to water in the oil???

[roosm]

Hi,

First of all, change your oil. Don't let it sit in there....
Also keep in mind, especially if you run in saltwater, that anti freeze is just as much anti-corrosion/rust.

I am not really an expert and I am sure someone else might chime in with more information, but for me this sounds like one issue leading to another.
My theory would be that somehow you got water in your cylinders. Especially if you run in salt water or brackish the most likely cause would be riser/manifold leak.
I guess this might happen anyways from stopping to quickly and water coming from the exhaust splashing forward through the riser and manifold. Cannot remember the name of this phenomena.
Should be more likely with one side weighted more heavily. Is it on the "surf side" of the boat you have the low compression?

So you got water somehow in your cylinders and down into your oil.
That means past your rings...

Getting the compression up when adding (a small amount of) oil in the cylinder usually means that the rings are worn/damaged. If I understand things correctly.
Since yours got +30 psi I would guess you might have damaged rings, possibly from getting water in the cylinders which can of course damage the rings. Especially if you let the boat stand a long time with water in the cylinders.

Though I am pretty sure I have gotten water, maybe even saltwater, in my cylinders and had it standing in the cylinder for long enough to get some pitting in the wall of the cylinder, but still have good compression.
I guess that oil could seal almost any very small leak, like from carbon build-up on your valves. Which also seems more likely if you 1) have some rough idle and 2) don't use the boat very often.

Couldn't the rough idle be a result of you getting water in your cylinders which also leads to water in your oil?
You did say you saw steam, as in white smoke, as in actually steam? Coming from water in your cylinders probably...

I would start by pulling the risers and looking for evidence of leak there. The riser gaskets are relatively easy and cheap to replace.

If it looks like water got in that way I would replace the gaskets and mount the risers again.
Then I would start the boat and run it until nice and warm. Then recheck compression. If the compression is good I would say case closed... As long as you did not get water in your oil again.
If not, then if possible get out on the lake an do some driving around.
Then recheck compression again (hopefully some carbon build up got knocked loose and the valves seal a little better).

If you don't get any more water in your oil but also don't get your compression up it is hard to say if a 25 psi difference which is what?, 15 %?, would warrant pulling the heads. For me, probably not...

Best case (or worst depending on how you look at it) you have gotten water in your cylinders and down your oil. Not really caused any problems (yet..) except for rough idle.
You have a little low compression on one side, might be related, might not be.
But this would probably mean that you should not run the boat the way you are doing while surfing or should not weight it as much or should not come of plane as quickly...

Best of luck!

[Sluggo]

Ok, so I pulled the intake and exhaust to try and find the source of the water intrusion. Here are some picks and the intake gasket looks good to me, almost new if you ask me. I will be replacing it but it does not appear to have any damage. The exhaust is old and crumbly, but for some reason I was expecting water from the block to be running into the exhaust and the gasket sealing it. My bad as you can see the ETX exhaust pumps water in from below the riser. So the question remains, how did this happen. In theory it could have been the boat was too low while surfing and it pulled in water when stopping or not running, but I have surfed for years and this has never happened. Is it possible that I used too much pressure the last time I ran it in the driveway on the hose? I use a flush pro and have never had the problem before, but I usually just use a half turn of the valve, immediately start, then shut down and immediately turn off the valve. I don't recall the exact sequence the last time I did it, but could it have filled up the exhaust after or before starting and entered the cylinders?

So obviously I will be replacing the intake and exhaust gaskets along with intake bolts. In theory this would not explain my rough running condition, but I guess I will put that on hold until I get things back together. If anyone knows how to test the MAP and CPS without shelling out $100 a piece for new ones, please let me know or point me in the right direction.

Oh, and should I be concerned about the corrosion on the port side push rods? Only happening on that side, strange.

Dave

[Sluggo]

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[2500HD]

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Take your head to a shop and have them pressure test them. This will tell you if you have a small crack or not.

[MJHKnox]

I agree with taking the heads to a shop.

Let them know what the plug looked like on the low cylinder.

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