Winterization

[scottschmitt]

I am not really getting it.

I think I'm mostly doing it like you, except I use the toilet plunger instead of pulling the water intake hose, and I pour the antifreeze into the thermostat instead of sucking it through the water pump.

I warm the engine, change the oil, run it again, and shut it down. Then drain the block and manifolds, and pour antifreeze into the thermostat. I was thinking the thermostat would be open still and antifreeze would go into the block and the manifolds. After a couple gallons if I open the block drains, there is nice pink coming out, so that path seems open still. Usually it takes 4-5 gallons before it is pink coming out the exhaust. Since I'm removing the water pump, the hose from the water pump to the thermostat always seems easy to use.

Picture is from the PCM owners manual ... kinda cute in an old-timey way. They suggest pulling every plug and putting fogging oil into each cylinder. That seems like a lot and I haven't been doing that. Just fogging down the carb.

No doubt the block can't have water or diluted antifreeze in it.

[roosm]

Hey,
Okay, this time I am getting it. First time it wasn't real clear that you drained the block and manifolds before pouring antifreeze into the thermostat. I have done your exact way also. One year my starter-engine gave up on me when I was trying to winterize.
Same thing. You pour antifreeze in and I let it suck it in. Shouldn't really matter unless you have water stuck in your waterpump that freeze. But if you remove that or change the impeller afterwards that won't be an issue.
I am not 100% sure but I am pretty certain that IF the block is empty it wouldn't really matter if the thermostat is open or not.
The thermostat controls how much water gets INTO the block, but has nothing to do with how much comes out. Since the out-put of water is connected to the manifolds that are always getting water, thus in an "always open" from raw water pump mode.
This would tell me that pouring water into a thermostat housing with a closed thermostat would get water into the manifolds, but also INTO the engine but the "wrong" way. As long as the block is empty.
I don't think you can ever be 100% certain that the thermostat is actually open short of removing it...

Only difference is that my way I get antifreeze in my V-drive at the same time. But you don't have one, I guess..

I could of course accomplish this by pouring water into the hose coming from the v-drive at the raw water pump. But it is too much trouble...

Mike

[roosm]

Silly question but the trans direct drive should not have any water that runs to it for any reason? (cooling or anything?) and which hose is the one i should be pouring the antifreeze down?

Drain the block and the manifolds first. Then you should disconnect the hose going to the thermostat from the raw water pump. And pour anti-freeze into the thermostat through this hose or another hose that fits on the connection on the thermostat.
Not sure if this makes sense, but if you disconnect the hose from the raw water pump only and then hold it up you can use this hose to pour anti-freeze into the thermostat. Otherwise disconnect the hose from the thermostat and use another hose to pour antifreeze into the thermostat.
This should fill your block and your manifolds with anti-freeze mix.

Then you should remove your impeller since otherwise you might have water locked in your waterpump.

Or you could go the route that Chris Young was saying, which would be similar to what I first said and let the raw water pump suck water into the engine.
Guess you don't have a v-drive so therefore pouring into the oil-cooler that is inline with the raw water intake would be the same thing as I do.

Best of luck!
Mike

[jtryon]

i'm not sure why you wouldn't just do the bucket method; run it up to operating temp where you know the thermostat is open, then switch from the hose to the pink antifreeze in the same bucket while the engine is running. this makes sure the AF gets everywhere it needs to be. once it's got 1/2 gallon left, fog the carb until the motor stalls and you're good to go. i've been doing this in the cold CT winters for 6 years now with no issues.

before: put stabil or startron in the gas tank, fill the tank full of gas. run to temperature, then change the oil with cheap 5w/30 and your normal filter. then do the winterizing method above.
after: pull batteries, loosen belt tensioner so both belts are slack, pour some of the excess pink antifreeze in the bilge since most of ours don't get all the water out via bilge pump.
spring time: replace spark plugs, tension belts, install batteries. start motor and after everything checks out, change oil with your normal oil.

[NorCalPR]

Just did mine yesterday. Here in ca...

Fill with stabil marine.
Run till its up to operating temp.
Drain the block and manifolds.
Take off the water pump hose and drain
Take out the impeller
Take out the line from the raw water pump to the block and blow out
Turn the batt off (on isolation switch. It fires up every time in the summer)


No fogging for me. I store mine under a big cover so it doesnt get wet anyways.

I change the oil after winter.

Zero issues here and the last motor i had apart looked just fine...

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[roosm]

i'm not sure why you wouldn't just do the bucket method; run it up to operating temp where you know the thermostat is open, then switch from the hose to the pink antifreeze in the same bucket while the engine is running. this makes sure the AF gets everywhere it needs to be. once it's got 1/2 gallon left, fog the carb until the motor stalls and you're good to go. i've been doing this in the cold CT winters for 6 years now with no issues.

before: put stabil or startron in the gas tank, fill the tank full of gas. run to temperature, then change the oil with cheap 5w/30 and your normal filter. then do the winterizing method above.
after: pull batteries, loosen belt tensioner so both belts are slack, pour some of the excess pink antifreeze in the bilge since most of ours don't get all the water out via bilge pump.
spring time: replace spark plugs, tension belts, install batteries. start motor and after everything checks out, change oil with your normal oil.

And probably it will work, but you are just playing the lottery every time, but with fairly good odds, and so far you are lucky!
Question is if it is worth it to save the time, like 5 minutes to loosen the plugs and emptying the block and manifolds before running antifreeze.
You might regret yourself if you end up being unlucky one year with a cracked block.

Even if the thermostat is open since the engine is up to operating temp you are still just idling and probably using quite cold water from your hose.
Since the raw water pump is powerful enough to easily handle cooling the block and the exhaust manifolds and risers even if the engine would be operating in 100 + degrees with 80 + degrees water temps we can be sure that the engine does not require ALL the water that the pump is pulling to be able to cool.
I am not sure what amount, but we can probably assume it is fairly low percentage.
The rest of the water goes through the bypass into the manifolds and out the exhaust.

So let us assume that 50 % of the water travels through the thermostat (which I think is waaay more than in reality) and through the block before going to the manifolds and the rest goes straight to the manifolds and then out the exhaust.
The block holds 3 gallons of water roughly, I think...
Then you would need at least 6 gallons of anti-freeze mix to replace it all.
I would however think that with the probably just slightly open thermostat and the full flow to the manifolds you will see far less than 50 % traveling this route. Here comes the lottery. You need to know your thermostat is fully open and will keep fully open for the period of time required. Only way to really know is to remove it. Then you should be at least almost safe.
So you might need 12 gallons or 20 gallons to get ALL antifreeze in the block.
Also it is hard to be sure that all water passages inside the block get anti-freeze mix in them.

However I am pretty sure antifreeze and water mix by them self. You wouldn't be able to create a "float"cocktail with them. It would just mix.

So realistically what happens is that from your original 5 gallons of antifreeze 1 gallon gets into the block and 1.5 gallons stays in the manifold and hoses, 2.5 gallons goes down the drain.
This still gets you enough antifreeze for the natural "mix" to get the dilution to 25% anti-freeze in the end. Which would give you a bursting point right around -10 degrees farenheit.
And the engine would actually have to sit in -10 for long periods of time before the water reaching this temperature.

The issue with ALL methods where you don't empty the block is you never know for sure.
Unless you re-circulate the antifreezemix for extended periods of time, not sure how to do this with an inboard, an outdrive in a bucket sure...

Hopefully this makes it more clear.

My supra survived 2 years, one where we saw -10 or even -15 F temps using my method but without draining the block, before I knew any better.
I am very thankful that it worked out and I didn't end up spending a few grand on a new block and all the labor.

Mike

[jbousman88]

Ok so mine is done and im pretty confident about it. Drained all of the plugs (two on the block, both exhaust manifolds and pump). So that should free up the whole system with no water. Then I removed the raw water pump hose and dropped it in a 5 gallon bucked of antifreeze and let it run. When i got down to the last little bit i fogged the carb and shut it down. Antifreeze was coming out the exhaust as well which shouldn't really matter since the system was basically drained of water anyway. Removed the battery and siphoned out what little gas i had left. Checked all the plugs on the block and it was all pink. Even with any little water being let if there was any in the pump or what not it should be beyond mixed enough. Thoughts?

[NorCalPR]

Ok so mine is done and im pretty confident about it. Drained all of the plugs (two on the block, both exhaust manifolds and pump). So that should free up the whole system with no water. Then I removed the raw water pump hose and dropped it in a 5 gallon bucked of antifreeze and let it run. When i got down to the last little bit i fogged the carb and shut it down. Antifreeze was coming out the exhaust as well which shouldn't really matter since the system was basically drained of water anyway. Removed the battery and siphoned out what little gas i had left. Checked all the plugs on the block and it was all pink. Even with any little water being let if there was any in the pump or what not it should be beyond mixed enough. Thoughts?

Youll be fine. Did you get it hit before draining?

Fwiw i like to leave my gas full, with stabilizer in it. That way if any moisture does get in (which ive never had happen) the stabilizer should take care of it

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[docdrs]

Never dilute plumbing antifreeze, you will be sorry. A 25% dilution of plumbing atifreeze which starts at 60% propylene glycol will give you (15 % prop glycol)negligible freeze protection and maybe 15 F burst protection. Always drain your block and poke the holes for rust. Sucking antifreeze, or pouring in a thermostat tube do the same thing.....the antifreeze will go thru to the J tube down to the circulating pump and into the block , look at the tstat housing.

Fyi. There is approx 5 gals of water in our entire systems, it would take about 45 gallons of plumbing antifreeze to properly protect the engine in -30 weather.

[jbousman88]

I did not mix my antifreeze. I drained the whole system of water which was about five gallons and then took the hose off the water intake and sucked up about 5-6 gallons of RV Marine antifreeze until it was coming out of the exhaust. I also checked the drains on the block to be sure it was straight pink antifreeze. Im assuming you meant 4-5 gallons and not 45?