Anybody have an opinion on this? ^^^Originally Posted by chrisk
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Anybody have an opinion on this? ^^^
Senior Member
I meant to provide the link to the item with 1" thread and 3/4" barb
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So coming back to my point...6 t1200's on 1 inch line will be substantially faster and more than likely cheaper than three reversibles...or am i missing something?
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Whoa, I guess this is what happens when I don't get a chance to check replies all weekend!
OK, this is good information to have, because it definitely impacts the layout of your system.
There are a couple of reasons why I would recommend against setting up a system like that:
- With your bow bag in the bag you won't have a way to drain it. You could fill it off of the pump for the rear bag, but without a dedicated pump back there, and with aerator pumps, the water will be stuck in the bag.
- A much more functional system would be to use a bag on each side of the engine compartment and a bag up in the bow. For wakeboarding fill them all up so you have even weight from side-to-side and front-to-back. For surfing fill just the bag on the surf side in the back and the forward bag. That's a much better system, and how we recommend setting things up on direct drive boats.
The way you have things drawn now, yes they are necessary to prevent drain water from flowing back down into the vent connection. Like I said, you could combine the drain connections together with each other and the vent connections together with each other instead of combining the vent and drain from each bag, and that would allow you to eliminate the check valve.
Thanks for catching that! Check valves definitely need to be on the vent line. Some people will use them on both lines to help ensure as much water is removed from the bag as possible when using an aerator pump, but that's definitely not necessary.
I'm assuming the diagram isn't drawn to scale, so I haven't addressed things like this, but you're absolutely correct, install thru-hulls as far forward as possible.
I would strongly caution anyone against using 1/2" lines (for any aspect of their ballast system). The vent and drain lines need to have at least the same flow rate as the fill line, otherwise they won't serve any purpose. Couple that with the fact that essentially no 1/2" hardware exists (bag connections, thru-hull connections, check valves, etc.) and it's just not worth any potential savings in terms of cost.You also only need 1/2" vent lines, but then you need a 1/2 / 3/4 y which may be hard to find or you could just go all 1/2 vent discharge as time is not usually a matter when draining. Just an opinion .......
Most importantly, this can result in significant damage to the bag or the boat due to overfilling. AGAIN, please do not use 1/2" lines for your ballast system, we've had numerous customers that have caused extensive fiberglass and gelcoat damage by trying to do something like this.
Careful using a sump pump in your boat, it's not ignition protected, which could have serious ramifications.
Yep, definitely stick with 3/4" lines. docdrs is spot on regarding the check valves (see my response above).
There are two advantages to using the Flow-Rite system:
1. It allows the bags to be removed easily. You're talking about wanting to be able to move your bags around the boat, and if you end up going that route you'll almost certainly need a way to disconnect the lines easily.
2. Using just a standard threaded connector (like you mentioned) will result in the hose extending straight off the top of the bag, which can be a huge packaging problem if you're installing the bag somewhere with limited clearance. Even with our premium hose you'll have problems with the hose kinking in that scenario. With the quick connects you can have the hose extend parallel to the surface of the bag, which means you need a minimum amount of clearance.
No problem, I knew that's what you meant, I just wanted to clarify for anyone else reading this thread in the future so they don't make a mistake setting up their system, and then end up cursing you and I for not knowing what we're talking about.
Galvanic corrosion is responsible for deterioration in almost every case, and it occurs to all materials (although cathodic materials are much more stable). It typically only a major problem in salt or brackish water environments, but we've had customers that have had parts completely disintegrate in less than two seasons in fresh water. For more information checkout our blog post here: http://media.wakemakers.com/2010/01/...-is-important/
The primary reason there's confusion here is because brass and bronze look virtually identical, so most people use the two interchangeably when describing materials. It's that misunderstanding that propagates the problem, and is evidenced by the fact that the site you linked to is selling a bronze thru-hull, but they're calling it brass.
Jabsco's are essentially identical to an 800GPH Tsunami pump in terms of real world speed.
Malibu uses 3/4" connections in their ballast systems. For an 800GPH pump there's no reason to use a larger diameter, as pump will be the limiting factor (unless you had 50' of hose between the pump and the tank/bag or something).
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Looks like my post was too long, so here's the rest of it:
Correct, aerator pumps will always be faster and cheaper than flexible vane impeller pumps, but those aren't always the two most important variables.
For example, on direct drive boats, where bags are out typically in the open, using aerator pumps means that you'll have a drain pump sitting in the middle of the boat that's prime for stubbed toes. You'll also have an extra connection to the bag, which means one more visible hose. So for that scenario, a lot of our customers will use flexible vane impeller pumps (like the Jabsco or Johnson) because the pump can be mounted remotely, and there are just two connections to make to the bag.
That's just one scenario where a flexible vane impeller pump may make more sense, even though it will be more expensive and slower than an available aerator pump.
Ultimately both pumps can be setup to work well, be reliable, and more than fast enough for most application, it just comes down to the individual situation, and making sure whoever is designing the system knows what they're doing.
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Jason, thanks for taking the time to respond to all of this, it's been a big help.
I'm laughing at myself for forgetting about draining that bag after I move it. So, I think I'm going to just keep one of the current Launch Pad's I have and use that when I want to surf.
When you guys say drill the thru-hull drains as far forward as possible, I understand what you mean, however I'm nervous about my bow bags. The picture is actually pretty accurate to what I was planning, I want the drain holes to be just a few inches away from the bilge pump hole so that everything looks clean and uniform. However, now I'm worried that because the bags will be farther forward than their holes, the water will siphon out. Should I be worried and how can I stop this?
Also, the SOLE reason I'm doing this project is so that I don't have to step over my bags inside the boat. I was very happy with the bags I was running last season as far as wake goes, however I really REALLY don't want the clutter inside my boat.
ANDDDD my last current question... could you provide links for what you're recommending for the PVC "manifold" in the bottom of the hull? AND I'm worried about the bags filling when I don't want them to - I don't want to grind off my scupper and I don't want to have to get inside my engine compartment to flip a ball valve everytime I fill the system.
Thanks so much for the help!
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No problem, happy to help out.
It happens, don't worry.
Putting the holes forward in the boat was only in relation to the rear bags, because that will elevate the drain fitting location relatively to the top of the bag. Based on the bag sizes you're using, and where they'll be installed I don't think you would have a problem with this anyway because it's really only a problem on v-drive boats where the rear bags come all the way up to the top of the locker.
Regardless, for your bow bags placing the thru-hulls further back on the boat (roughly under the windshield) will be just fine.
Gotcha, and if you're been using that weight setup and know what to expect in terms of the wake then you're good.
Sorry, I forgot this early. With just two fill pumps you'll only need a Tee, and since you're using 800s, 3/4" is fine. So in that case you would just need to use our 3/4" Intake Nipple to connect a 3/4" Intake Tee to the ball valve. From there you can thread the 800s directly into the tee.
You don't already have a thru-hull that you've installed do you? As long as you don't just use a 3/4" Bronze Mushroom Thru-hull, that along with the check valves will ensure you don't have any issues with the water level in the bags changing when you don't want it to.
The ball valve is only there for emergencies, you do not need to access it in regular use.
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Thanks for the info! I just saw that hose went on sale so I purchased hose and pumps tonight. I'm going to keep buying the supplies incrementally as I get some dough. Gettin' pretty excited!
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For good reason, you'll have a great system when you're done with the install, and you'll love having it automated.
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Jason, I finally finished this project. Everything works great except for one problem. My rear bag is filling when I don't want it to when underway. I understand why this happens and I was just wondering if anyone has any advice on what I can do other than installing the vented loop?
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