Tsunami 800 pump upgrade project

[Fman]

Fman,

Do you think the Tsunamis 1200 pumps would that be much more difficult to install instead of the 800's, to get the extra flow, or is there a reason you didnt go with those?

The 1200's use a thread pattern that has no fittings for it, that is why I chose to go with the 800's. You will get 6 more GPM with the 1200's, but for less headaches, I chose to go with the 800's and the 3/4" NPT fittings. I have seen on the Moomba site someone used the 1200's, not as clean of a setup but he got it to work. With the 800's everything looks nice and professionally done. You will also need to drill additional holes (2) in your boat with seperate intakes for each pump with the 1200's. One 3/4" intake will cap out at about 40 GPM which is about what you are getting with all 3-800's drafting from one intake. If you ran (3) 1200's from one intake it would defeat the purpose.

Just my .02, for more info on the 1200's contact Jason at wakemakers.com, he was actually the one recommended the 800's to me because of the problems with the 1200 fittings.

I have been very happy with my 800's, I am filling 1900 lbs in about 9 minutes. I rarely fill this much, so usually I am at about a 5-6 min fill time for wakeboarding and surfing. Noneless, much faster than the stock system with no priming headaches or draining problems, especially now that all my bags are vented properly.

[TayTay]

FMAN, I am looking at just starting with the venting system for the stock ballast system that I have. My question is what is the purpose of the 3 3/4" double barbed male fittings? I don't see where they fit into the picture. You have a hose running from the quick disconnect on the third vent in the bag to the "Y" fitting installed as close as possible to the through hull drain fitting, all of which are barbed so why do you need the double barbed fitting? Attached is a drawing of what I think it should look like. Thanks for the info.

[Fman]

Tay,

You are correct, I dont see why you would need the double barbed fittings. They are only used to extend hose lengths from and existing hose. Sorry about that, I will need to make that correction.

Your system looks good, it should work fine.

[ScottnAz]

Fman - thanks for the great write-up, I've got my account setup with wakemakers and am filling the cart for the order.

A couple things got me thinking, both regarding venting the bags

1. I wonder if all three bags could be tied in to one check valve/vent line. It seems like it could work since it's just air getting pushed out, although, what would keep the bags from venting in to one another. And for that matter, if a bag over fills and tries to push water out the vent line it may just end up filling another bag. Suppose I just talked my way right through that thought..... thanks for listening

2. If the bag is being vented, is there still a need for the anti-siphon loop on the fill side? The anti-siphon valve is basically there to create an air gap in the system so water won't be pushed/pulled in to a closed system. So, in essence, couldn't the "air gap" be located anywhere on the system? ie: bag vent located above draft line? Although, the anti-siphon loop helps prevent back-draining of the bag.

Certainly not trying to reinvent the wheel here, just some random thoughts I had.

Here's what I've got in my cart,

Attwood Tsunami 800 GPH Ballast Pump (x3)
Fly High Tsunami 800 / 3/4" Hose Barb Adapater W745 (x3)
3/4" Vented Loop Anti-siphon Valve (x3)
3/4" Non-Return Check Valve Fitting (x3)
3/4" Hose Barb Tee Fitting (x3)
Fly High 3/4" Straight Flow-Rite Quick Release Connector W740 (x3)
Fly High 3/4" Flow-Rite Quick Release Connect W736 (x3)

Last summer we found ballast hose at ACE Hardware, and everything else for the manifold can be sourced at Home Depot? Thanks again

[Fman]

Fman - thanks for the great write-up, I've got my account setup with wakemakers and am filling the cart for the order.

A couple things got me thinking, both regarding venting the bags

1. I wonder if all three bags could be tied in to one check valve/vent line. It seems like it could work since it's just air getting pushed out, although, what would keep the bags from venting in to one another. And for that matter, if a bag over fills and tries to push water out the vent line it may just end up filling another bag. Suppose I just talked my way right through that thought..... thanks for listening

2. If the bag is being vented, is there still a need for the anti-siphon loop on the fill side? The anti-siphon valve is basically there to create an air gap in the system so water won't be pushed/pulled in to a closed system. So, in essence, couldn't the "air gap" be located anywhere on the system? ie: bag vent located above draft line? Although, the anti-siphon loop helps prevent back-draining of the bag.

Certainly not trying to reinvent the wheel here, just some random thoughts I had.

Here's what I've got in my cart,

Attwood Tsunami 800 GPH Ballast Pump (x3)
Fly High Tsunami 800 / 3/4" Hose Barb Adapater W745 (x3)
3/4" Vented Loop Anti-siphon Valve (x3)
3/4" Non-Return Check Valve Fitting (x3)
3/4" Hose Barb Tee Fitting (x3)
Fly High 3/4" Straight Flow-Rite Quick Release Connector W740 (x3)
Fly High 3/4" Flow-Rite Quick Release Connect W736 (x3)

Last summer we found ballast hose at ACE Hardware, and everything else for the manifold can be sourced at Home Depot? Thanks again

Scott,

Sounds like you are off to a great start, and I chose to run the anti-siphon on each bag so water would not drain back into the bag. You dont need an anti-syphon on the fill side, this what the vented loops will do to eliminate water from coming into your system while driving the boat. I like having a seperate vent on each bag because when they fill it will start to pour out the thru holes in the side of the boat to let you know they are full.

Just make sure and mount the 800's as close to the bottom of the boat as possible, the lower the better for no hassle priming. If there are any other questions you have let me know, I can always give you my cell # to talk voice if need be. Its a pretty straight forward system, I have been very happy with it and it has been very reliable. Soooooo much better than the sprinkler valves!!! I think you will be very pleased, I can fill 1900 lbs of ballast in about 8-9 minutes.... which is acceptable to me. This is roughly about 30 GPM total with all three pumps running.

The only item I did not put back in my system was a water strainer, I have never had any problems with debris, but this is also another item that could be added. If you are in mucky, dirty water a lot it might not be a bad idea.

[jasonwm]

1. I wonder if all three bags could be tied in to one check valve/vent line. It seems like it could work since it's just air getting pushed out, although, what would keep the bags from venting in to one another. And for that matter, if a bag over fills and tries to push water out the vent line it may just end up filling another bag. Suppose I just talked my way right through that thought..... thanks for listening

There are a few reasons why we don't recommend sharing one thru-hull for venting purposes:

a. If all three bags are full and venting at the same time, you'll actually have water flowing through that fitting at a rate of (800GPH-loses)*3, which could exceed the capacity of the thru-hull connector. In that case you could potentially damage the bags or boat.
b. With all three bags tied to the same connection you lose any indication of which bag is full. This wouldn't be a problem if you're filling all three bags (except for the issue above), but if you're only filling two for surfing, you won't know which one is full, which can be a pain. Having a discrete connection for each bag to vent out of that is located more or less near the bag will give you a visual and audible indication of when that bag is full based on where the water is coming out of the boat (front, rear starboard, rear port).
c. If you do that ideally you'd want a check valve on each line to prevent water from back flowing into a bag that you want to be empty. For example, if you're surfing and filling the left rear bag you don't want the right rear bag to fill from the vent line. All of those check valves add a lot of cost (way more than the extra thru-hull fittings), and it gets pretty tough to fit them all under the gunnel.

2. If the bag is being vented, is there still a need for the anti-siphon loop on the fill side? The anti-siphon valve is basically there to create an air gap in the system so water won't be pushed/pulled in to a closed system. So, in essence, couldn't the "air gap" be located anywhere on the system? ie: bag vent located above draft line? Although, the anti-siphon loop helps prevent back-draining of the bag.

The vented loop breaks the siphon effect that can occur regardless of whether or not there is a vent connection to the bag or not. In fact venting will actually increase the likelihood of the volume of water in the bag changing because air can easily enter or exit the bag to make up for the change in water.

Trust me, we've tried every way around vented loops you can imagine, and I'm pretty sure Travis asked all of the same questions too, unfortunately there just isn't one.

Here's what I've got in my cart,

Attwood Tsunami 800 GPH Ballast Pump (x3)
Fly High Tsunami 800 / 3/4" Hose Barb Adapater W745 (x3)
3/4" Vented Loop Anti-siphon Valve (x3)
3/4" Non-Return Check Valve Fitting (x3)
3/4" Hose Barb Tee Fitting (x3)
Fly High 3/4" Straight Flow-Rite Quick Release Connector W740 (x3)
Fly High 3/4" Flow-Rite Quick Release Connect W736 (x3)

Last summer we found ballast hose at ACE Hardware, and everything else for the manifold can be sourced at Home Depot? Thanks again

Looks good, but give one of us a call and we can set you up with the drain pump adapter fittings and everything else you need that's not available for purchase directly through the store.

Our hose is better than what you'll find at ACE, Lowes or Home Depot because it won't kink, and is NMMA rated for applications in the bilge. It should also be cheaper, BICBW. Same goes for manifold components, you don't want to use brass you can find at plumbing supply stores because it will undergo galvanic corrosion and fail in short order. Plus, our fittings are cheaper and lighter, which is important when you're using a thru-hull without a seacock as the factory has done.

Anyone else that is interested in performing this upgrade is free to give us a call. We've done dozens of boats now, and we offer system planning for free, so you might as well take advantage of it.

[Fman]

Jason is the "guru" of ballast systems (he works for www.wakemakers.com, he got me set up last season.... Jason, thanks for chiming in, your input is always appreciated

[dusty2221]

Hey Fman, I sent you a pm.

Jason, regarding galvanic corrosion and brass components, what is causing failure in a ballast enviroment so quickly when these brass fittings are used in home plumbing applications with water passing through 24/7 for years on end with no problem? Don't get me wrong, I've seen some corroded ones, but they are generally really old.

Just curious. ( I've got my "cart" saved on your website ready to do this project)

[Fman]

Same goes for manifold components, you don't want to use brass you can find at plumbing supply stores because it will undergo galvanic corrosion and fail in short order. Plus, our fittings are cheaper and lighter, which is important when you're using a thru-hull without a seacock as the factory has done.

Jason,

I used brass 3/4" fittings for my manifold, I always thought brass would hold up with good corrosion protection and it is much stronger than PVC. They use it in houses for years with no rust problems, I figured it would be no problem in the boat especially because it only has water in it when the boat is in the water. The shut-off valve Skiers Choice put in the boat is brass, along with the scupper intake grate.

I guess I should eventually expect problems??? So far I have seen no leaking, how long should I expect the manifold to last? Guess the worst case scenario is I have to make a new manifold out of PVC, hopefully that wont have to be anytime soon.

[Fman]

FMAN, I am looking at just starting with the venting system for the stock ballast system that I have. My question is what is the purpose of the 3 3/4" double barbed male fittings? I don't see where they fit into the picture. You have a hose running from the quick disconnect on the third vent in the bag to the "Y" fitting installed as close as possible to the through hull drain fitting, all of which are barbed so why do you need the double barbed fitting? Attached is a drawing of what I think it should look like. Thanks for the info.

Tay,

"You will need a couple 3/4" double male barbed fittings to attach the no-kink bilge line to the existing stock drain lines. I would cut it just behind or near the sidewall and re-run the no-kink from this point. The 3/4" double male barbed fittings are available at Lowes, wakemakers did not sell them."

If you are completely re-routing new lines this is not necessary. I had problems with the stock drain lines actually kinking up from the weight of the bags, the ribbed hose wakemakers sells is much stronger and will not kink up.

Hope this answers your questions, your drawing looks good. If you have any more questions please ask.

Travis....