Starting problem continued...

[gtbrault]

I posted last week how I was having problems starting the boat a second time while out on the water - found that my starter was shot, bought a new one and put it in, also changed out my ignition switch which is why I was asking for a wiring diagram or anyone to chime in as to what wires connect where, I believe I have that figured out, turn the key to on and the gauges come alive. Problem not is, with new starter in I turn the key and nothing happens. Figured I had a bad connection, went through and cleaned and re-tightened all positive and ground connections. Still nothing, replaced solenoid switch. Still nothing - thought I might disconnect the cable from the solenoid to the starter and see what it sounds like when bending the cable - sounds like rice crispys in milk - hopefully a new cable and away I go...if not I'll check the positive cable and make sure it's in good shape too. After that -what else can I check?

[rludtke]

I think you are on the right track with the battery cables. Quite possibly this is the true root cause. The starter might not have been the problem. I would consider too load testing your battery. These modern digital solid-state testers that they have in the auto parts stores do not (in my experience) diagnose a marginal battery. My recomendation is to take your battery to an "old school" shop, the kind that been around so long that the floors are black. This kind of shop will have the old-style analog battery load tester that you wheel around on a cart. This tester will put a real lead on your battery, and identify if you have any weak cells or not.

A good batter may perform ok with bad battery cables when a marginal battery will not. In fact, I suspect that the stress of bad cables may cause a weakening of the battery. I had very simular problems when I first purchased my boat. New cables and a new battery solved the problem.

[gtbrault]

I did buy a new battery last August, right after I bought the boat and had it hooked up to a maintainer all winter. Before I pulled the starter it had plenty of juice to fire the boat up in my driveway. Replaced the positive battery cable tonight and no luck. Could you do me a favor and take a look at your ignition switch wiring. I did swap out my ignition switch at the same time as all of this. There are three wires connected to the 3-position switch. One is red, one is yellow with a red stripe, and one is orange. The yellow and orange one are a thicker -smaller gauge wire than the red. The three positions on the switch are I, B and S. Which goes where on yours? The way I've got it wired now when I turn the key to on my gauges come alive - that only happens in the current set up. Any help would be appreciated...I should probably find a book electrical 101 for dummys!!! Took a look at some of your pics - nice comp! Ours is no where near as nice as that but you can't beat that little wake for slalom skiing... and I had no idea you could ski up at Conconully, grew up skiing banks lake though but since we've lived in Wenatchee we can launch in about 15 minutes from hooking up the boat.

[rludtke]

Hi gtbrault

According to the 1987 schematic:

The "I" terminal should have three wires noted as PUR, which I think means purple.

The "B" terminal receives a Red / * wire from the main circuit breaker (*I can't read the second color, it might be black).

The "S" terminal gets the yellow / red wire.

The schematic is too large to post, but I could email it too you. I attached a .jpg of the schematic, but you may not be able to magnify it enough to decipher it. I'll take a look at my boat to confirm that it matches the schematic, I'll take some pictures too.

I fell in love with Conconully because nobody water skiis or wake boards there. (shhh, don't tell anybody...). Long ago we stayed at Sun Lakes before I got the inbd, but quickly got tired of the crowds. My wife also put her foot down and said she wouldn't drive on that lake any more. She's right, it's dangerous. Too many crazy people with boats and too many blind corners.

We then moved to Banks, and loved it. The challenge is finding a place to moor the boat next to our motorhome. Coulie Playground does have beachfront sites, but it is in the marina at Electric City, and the water is much colder than down by say, Steamboat Rock. Steamboat Rock St Pk is awsome, but I could never get reservations on the water. At Banks we spent a lot of time commuting with the boat south to warmer water, and would need to spend the whole day away from camp.

I discovered a resort on the reservoir at Conconully that has beachfront campsites. They primarily cater to fishing and off-roading. The last time I staid, I was the only boat on the lake pulling people around. I had the lake to myself, just awsome. Normally I have to get up at sunrise, then wait for sunset to get any slalom sets in, but not at Conconully. The only things kicking up the water when I was there last was either the breeze or me! Now we just sit around on the beach, and ski/board/innertube whenever anybody feels like it.

Cheers,

[gtbrault]

I'll have to take a closer look tomorrow after work to make sure I've got all the wires where they should be.
I was planning on taking the family up to Curlew Lake this summer, but Conconully is much closer. The river is nice for just convenience but it gets a little chilly. We used to camp at Coulee City Park, not much of a park but 20+ miles of lake and only a handful of boats. Steamboat was gorgeous but forget about having to make reservations and there was no way we would do Sun Lakes, I was almost run over by a boat once while skiing so I tend to stay clear of really crowded lakes.
I sent you a PM with my email address, I tried to see that pic but it's just a little too blurry. We've finally got decent weather and I'm going crazy not being able to get out on the water...
I'll be looking into Conconully a little more as the summer goes on - thanks for all the help with this.

[gtbrault]

Allright, here's what I've replaced so far -
Battery last fall, in the past two weeks : starter, solenoid, ignition switch, positive battery cable, negative battery cable, solenoid to starter cable. Cleaned all connections and retightened. Tightened the screws on the neutral safety switch. And she turned over - had to do a quick disconnect of the battery since the starter wouldn't turn off. I reviewed the picture sent to me from Rick and I've got a couple wires crossed on my ignition switch. I'll tinker a little more tonight but the fact that I now have power getting to my starter is hugely encouraging.
I'll try and snap some pics of the old girl. Next is to continue cleaning up the trailer, get it primed this year and probably paint over the winter. The gelcoat needs a little refreshing and I'd like to find some new decals for the side but just a basic white boat with blue on the top and the rainbow stripes down the sides.

[gtbrault]

I was able to get back on my project today and the boat turns over just fine and seems like it's about to start running until I let go of the key. Once I let go of the key it stops cold. The other funny thing is that when the key is in the "on" position the gauges do not work, but they do come alive while running the starter. So I'm thinking I have some issue with my ignition wire. I got a picture from Rick the other day showing how his ignition is wired and when I wired my ignition switch like that I finally had juice to my starter. Any suggestions on the easiest way to check this?

[rludtke]

Hi Greg,

My first thought is ignition switch. Possibly it may have failed internally. I replaced mine with a unit from Skidim several years ago. if my memory serves it failed open, and nothing would happen when the key was turned. But it might fail in other modes. I think your switch may be internally grounded on the I circuit. This could explain why your gauges stop working, and further suggests that your ignition system isn't energized when you try to start. A hot short to ground will not allow electricity to run through any other circuits, as they will all have greater resistance than the hot short, and electricity seeks the path with the least resistance (much like the rest of us).

You could test the system by bypassing the switch. Conecting the B ((battery) and I (ignition) wires togather (with the main curcuit breaker on) will power up the ignition in preparation to start. Touching the S (starter) wire to the the other two should make the starter run, and I suspect the boat will start, as power to the ignition should be assured. If this works, the switch is bad. If this doesn't work, then something else must be wrong.

You could also apply a continuity tester to the switch to confirm the internal short.

I haven't gotten back into the water yet either. My wife recieved a concussion and a broken nose in a horse incident over a week ago in Idaho, and hasn't been well enough to fly home, so I've been holding the fort down. She is coming home tomorrow. I have a couple of small open items remaining to put the boat in the water, but I may not get the free time this weekend to get everything done. I would like to get the boat wet before we leave, as I have reservations at Shady Pines Resort on Conconully Reservoir for the week of July 25, which might be in jepordy due to my wifes injuries. We'll have to play it by ear. She's expected to recover, but it takes time.

let us know if this works...

Cheers,

[gtbrault]

Rick - sorry to hear about your wife, with 3 little ones I don't know what I'd do to hold down the fort. Thoughts and prayers are with you on this one...
As far as the boat, we're over at my folks for the 4th and I'll have to wait until tomorrow to test it out - what I'm thinking is I'll check for continuity with the switch set to on and if no continuity, I'll cruise to the boat shop and try another switch - if I get continuity, I'll try reversing the battery and ignition wires and see what happens. I know the starter is wired okay since that kicks over when I turn the key all the way.
Thanks for the help.

[gtbrault]

I finally got it all fixed- got out the multimeter and found what was my hot wire (turns out I thought I had the solenoid wire correct when I actually had the battery wire on the solenoid switch so I put it on the battery lead of the switch, put what was on the battery lead on the starter lead and she fired right up and stayed running!!!! She gets the water test tomorrow afternoon! I guess I thought the switch would only allow the power to go one direction...oops.