rebuilds and ballasts

[shuswapslaysher]

New to the site and let me start by saying, Great work on the forums guys.

I have recently moved to the Shuswap Lake area in BC...
Im getting comfortable in the new job and i'm looking to invest in an older SS.

I plan to split the boat and rebuild.
i have scoured over the threads in this and many other sites researching, trying to figure out the best way to integrate ballast below the waterlilne.

my plan is to design this sunsport specifically with wakesurfing in mind.
I have bad ears and Im quite tired of forced eyelid water injections.

first off.. Im hoping to hear your input and ideas

secondly... i was wondering if any1 is in the process of this right now?
Would it be possible to get measurements of the stringers and bilge/bow areas under the floors?

third...has any1 seen any good links regarding structural foam instead of wood in a rebuild like this.

It has crossed my mind to reinforce the transom during the process and run a switchblade as well.

Keep your eyes peeled for an old skool sunsport willing to travel for the right one

[Okie Boarder]

The volume of space under the floor of a Sunsport would probably let you get about 500-600 pounds under the floor, max. You would have to consider doing a hard tank to provide support you would take away using that volume. It is possible that if you do hard tanks you might be able to get another few hundred pounds up front, but access to the tank and fittings would get tricky if there was ever problems. If you wanted to really step out of the box with an intent to primarily accomodate ballast, you could increase the volume of space available for ballast by making the stringers taller and cut away from the bottom of the top cap section. This would end up putting the floor closer to the top of the gunnels once put back together, but I bet you could gain 3-6" without it suffering too much and still being relatively safe. There really isn't a lot of room under there and it would take some creativity to gain the weight you want.

One thought is you could do tanks to get maybe 800 pounds total that is hidden away. In addition, you could use front bilge space, under rear seat space and the ski locker for more "hidden" ballast. That gives you the potential for another1200-1300 pounds that is still out of the way.

[shuswapslaysher]

Thanx for ur input okie=-)
It is my intention to run the system in conjunction with a sac setup.
prob going to customize the rear of the interior (removing the ski locker all together) to incorporate a 650lbs rear seat sac with 370lbs tube sacs on both sides.. planning to fill those with a scoop on the hull of the boat and pump to empty...

i wonder if it possible to isolate the exhaust and build the ballast into the deeper part that runs along side the engine....possibly making that whole void from bow to stern a built in ballast? of course with baffling to prevent slosh, and air venting for quick fill/drain.

that would represent at least 1000lbs under the water line?

would running closed cell foam in all the other voids be enough?

im sure this would also make for a very long pocket on the surf wave,+ a great wake for the ppl who want to sk8.

im thinking that leaving a few inches from the transom open so there is room for power water gates...boxing it in and doing the baffles and air vent while the boat is spilit...gelcoating?? or something over the fiberglass on the inside of the ballast...then capping it seperate from the rest of the floor system...if there are any future issues, it would allow me to fix/fill if needed..

[devovino]

I like your line of thinking, I will untimately be re-doing my floors, recently purchased a 87 Saltare, in the process of remodeling my upholstry/seats. Will ultimately be engrossed in the floor/stringer replacement, and have considered putting some ballast below the deck, and have been researching the best ways to do this. I am a little ways out from splitting the topcap, but would like to also make this saltare a surfing machine, so this seems a great way to do this instead ao having a bunch of fat sacks laying around on the floor. Will probably convert the rear seat/ski locker to accommodate sacks as well. The idea of a solid tank would probably work best, would not want a 1000 lbs of loose H20 sloshing around below the deck, seems like it could become problematic.
Maybe next winter I will perform this opreation, so it gives me time to do my homework, I like the idea of bringing the floor up 3-6 inches and cutting the top cap up to compensate, would imagine I could imagine reinforceing fiberglass on the hull to strengthen it up a bit would be a good idea. So cheers to the notion, keep me updated on any findings, and I will do the same. Good luck in your searchings for a "SALTARE", I think it would roll well on Lake Shoeshwap- The house boating capitol of Canada!

[sybrmike]

I thought about underfloor ballast in my Saltare until I tore the floor up. Not that it can't be done, just not by me. There really wasn't that much room down below - inner stringer heights ~8-10" & less on the outers if I recall. The engine bumpouts and cross braces take up even more room between the stringers. Also, since I was rebuilding rotten stringers decayed by moisture trapped below the floor, I just couldn't bring myself to intentionally recreate that same scenario.

Raising the floor is a good idea especially if you can work out cross braces that don't interfere. There's a lot of length to work with, so every inch of height could add quite a bit. I looked at custom tube sacs with some clever access hatches. Another possibility is using the stringers as side walls and cross braces as baffles of sealed compartments (similar to how composite airplanes make fuel tanks), but you need to be confident in your ability to seal it up real well.

Ultimately, this is the direction I chose - a 10x16x70 400# sac under each side of the playpen (currently reworking the seat bracing to make room), another 400# sac in the ski locker, and two 18x20x32 450# sacs under a redesigned rear bench. The rear bench will be a convertible sundeck, so can fill the 2 sacs halfway with the bench down for seating or all the way with the bench up as sundeck. I also have an "optional" 20x20x50 surf sac to be placed on either side of the doghouse. One Johnson impeller pump for the bow and surf sacs & another for the rear sacs. Each sac will be individually valved so I can play with port/strbd and bow/stern balance to see what works best for regular/goofy/wake/surf. Don't know if I'll ever use em all maxed out at the same time, but that's 2100# "hidden" with only a single 750# on the floor. Won't know how well it works until I get er finished & back on the water, but should be plenty for me & the kids.

Good luck & let us know what you come up with (I might steal your solution when I rebuild her again in another 25 years...).

[Okie Boarder]

As far as the foam is concerned, that is a point of debate and opinion. The foam originally in these boats is not enough to float them properly in a swamping situation even if you put back all the foam that was originally in there, from what I've found out. Many people have put foam in and many have opted to leave the foam out. It does add some structural rigidity and sound dampening, so it has a positive from that standpoint. It eventually will trap water and help to accelerate the rotting of any structure you rebuild, so that is a pretty big negative.

[mapleleaf]

My thought on the foam was that I believe it would be better suited for the gun whales where it would help with buoyancy and keep the boat righted in a flip over situation, may have got that from the US Coast guard or read it here somewhere. Pretty sure its a better place for it than the floor....

[docdrs]

The foam is like a spare tire.........may never need it in a million miles, or for all your vehicles, if you keep the maintenance up.........but it sure is nice to have it when your 500 miles from home and have a flat.

[Okie Boarder]

But, the amount of foam they put in these boats isn't sufficient to really do anything. It would be the equivalent of having a spare tire and when it is time to use it you find out it is flat. It's a false sense of security.

[wotan2525]

I wasn't planning on replacing the foam when I did my rebuild.... but.... at the last second I decided it was worth it just to reinforce the stringers and provide additional support for the floor. I know it's a trade off, but I felt it was worth the risk.