Ford, Indmar, and Supra

[ssa]

Regardless even if they are going all Ford based it makes their engines unique which is what my original point was with Mastercraft using them.

[toddg]

Indmar marketing manager told me while they are moving to Ford, they maintain the relationship with GM at the same time. Don't know exactly what that means, but it doesn't sound like DUMPING.

Supposedly, also - tomorrow big announcement from Supra. No idea what that might be.

[92SupraComp]

hmmmmm... Well considering Correct Craft just had a *big* announcement on their new 21 ft wakeboat I bet Supra has done something about it!

I dont care for the new boats. They dont impress me that much, yeah some are cool but eh, too new for me. Boats should be simple. Im old school. So really, why do I bother with this Indmar thing?...

[cadunkle]

Just like the handful of guys who put mod motors in classic cars or other oddball applications... Why? Those small displacement engines are physically huge and of course very complex and expensive. Why in the world would anyone put a mod motor where a 460 based engine will fit? 460 is not as wide, important in a boat if you want to be able to walk around the engine in a DD or have maximum storage or ballast room in a vdrive. 460 is only slightly taller than a mod motor depending on oil pan and intake choice, and height is a less critical measurement. Also cheaper, more displacement (torque), less maintenance cost, fewer parts to fail.

I'm not impressed with any overhead cam engine in this application. Tow boat engines should be big displacement pushrod engines. I'm a Ford guy and it drives me nuts that my boat has a 454. If it ever dies though, it'll likely be getting a stroked 460. If I was given a new boat and the choice was a SBC or a Ford mod motor, I'd have to take the SBC even in its new age fuel infected form these days.

[dschnei6]

I'm a Ford guy too and love the 460. I have a 73 Ford LTD with a 460 that I will never part with. But my next boat will have Ford 6.2L in it...

[cadunkle]

Now don't get me wrong the mod motors, at least 4.6, is a proven design. They'll go 300K+ in taxis and perform well enough for a point A to B passenger car. Overhead cam and all the associated complexity wouldn't be my personal choice, but in that application they do fine. In a truck or a towboat, no way. I recall Chevy did a blind test of a SBC based pushrod engine and a new overhead cam engine in Corvettes some years ago. Identical cars otherwise and had many people drive them and compare which felt faster and which they liked better. Despite being similar displacement and HP, the pushrod engine felt like it had a lot more low end grunt and thus more powerful to the test drivers, hence why Chevy's bread and butter is still a SBC based pushrod V8.

Overhead cams add lots of complexity and are best suited to higher RPM. Go back to the Ford 427 SOHC. It was a screamer, capable of running 7500+ RPM all day. Very expensive complex compared to a regular FE. The high RPM advantage comes from eliminating pushrods and lifters. That's a lot of weight that accelerates, decellerates and changes direction quickly. With an overhead cam you don't have as much weight on the other side of the spring so less valve spring pressure is required and hence the valves don't get abused as hard as with pushrods and lifters. Sustained high RPM is the only reason to go OHC, and in an application that requires high torque across a broad RPM range an OHC engine just seems like a square peg/round hole scenario to me.

[92SupraComp]

don't forget the OHC 427 had a 6 FT TIMING CHAIN! People avoided the motor because under long and hard runs the chain would stretch and cause the cams to come out of sync...

Also, remember, big difference between Chevy Small Block 350 and GM LS series V8's which are used in all GM trucks, SUV's, some cars, and the sports cars, as well as new boats...

The aftermarket world still uses the GEN III LS base motors because thats GM provides and also its currently most reliable. What do most classic fords receive? A Chevy 350. What do most performance fords and other brands cars receive? GEN III GM LS motors... They are cheap, plentiful, and very reliable... Also, the LS motors are lighter than the Chevy 350 and Ford 351W... (tons light than the 351M lol)

OHC has no hydraulic spring/damper vs push rod which does. Thats why my friend 2007 F-150 with 5,4L only has pull around 2K rpm (where torque is) and over 4K rpm, and then the GEN IV 5.3L (LC9) in our 2007 Suburban feels like it has more pull than his 5.4L...

[cadunkle]

don't forget the OHC 427 had a 6 FT TIMING CHAIN! People avoided the motor because under long and hard runs the chain would stretch and cause the cams to come out of sync...

People didn't avoid the 427 SOHC, it simply was never offered in any production vehicle. It was a parts counter item though and was generally available to the public for around $3400, about what it cost in '64-'68 to get a 427 or 428 Galaxie. Your average weekend warrior wasn't going to spend as much as he spent on his car, or more than he spent on his car if you're talking a Fairlane. It was made for Nascar to compete with the 426 hemi and run 8000+ RPM all day. Cam timing at high RPM was an issue with a nearly 6' long timing chain and was addressed by advancing the timing on the passenger side cam 4* so at high RPM the cams were timed the same.

Not sure what you mean by most classic Fords get a SBC. Most Fords I see 50s through 70s have Ford engines. Most are SBF though you see FEs and 385 series as well. Less common are flatheads, and it's quite rare that I see a Y block. The only Fords I see with Chevy engines in any quantity are 30s and 40s Fords. Flatheads are expensive to build and don't make nearly the power of a modern engine like the SBF or SBC. SBF and SBC are essentially the same. It's cheaper and easier to swap a SBC into those early Fords as when those cars were more popular SBC was cheaper to build and had more aftermarket parts available hence most conversion parts were made for that engine, and a trend was set. Maybe it's a regional thing, but it's pretty rare to see a SBC in a 50s-70s Ford around here and there are far more of those at shows and cruise nights than 30s-40s hot rods.