2016 SA - Thoughts?

[Wulphie]

I can't tell who's being serious on this thread and who's being a troll. I think the boat is gorgeous and although I would worry about buying a used one in 10 years with all of the electronics that could be (and will be) failing at some point..... If I was in the market for a new boat, with a warranty, this would certainly be one I would look at. I think Supra is really killing it right now with their new boats.

I am being serious when I say I don't find the boat interesting at all. But to be fair I don't find any of the new boats interesting and I don't even find the boats I own all that interesting.

I love the water, I love skiing and wakeboarding with friends, I love throwing the anchor and hanging with my girlfriend and drinking, swimming etc. but the boat itself I don't really care about.

But I am 46 and I want to retire before I am 55 so having a fancy boat is not my priority. Having fun is.

As I said in a previous post I think it is cool they make these things for the people that do think having a fancy boat is important it is just not me or the crew I ski with.

[cadunkle]

People that hate the new looks and complain about the technology crack me up. You guys belong in the balcony with the old guys from the Muppets. As stated above, FI was the end of the world but everyone has it now.

I have 5 vehicles, none are EFI. One is fuel injected but it is entirely mechanical. All my vehicles are simple, reliable, and affordable so far as initial purchase and maintenance.

And by the way, gauges are electronic and have been for quite awhile. Where is the outrage?? At least supra has redundancy built into their system with back up switches.

Gauges on my '89 are electronic, as are most gauges on boats going back a decade or two prior. Electronic gauges have indeed been around for a while, though I see a lot fewer on the new SA than on any boat I've ever owned, which makes the dash a lot less useful and less intuitive.

And as for the looks, guess what, it makes the boat practical. You put 7 or 8 people in the boat and you will really appreciate the big bow and wide beam. What to surf a really fun wave wave? Just press a button and in 10 minutes you are surfing a killer wave without bags, listing, and chilly dipping the bow. The Roswell tower is the best in the industry and ROCK SOLID. Never a rattle.

I did say it's a great boat in the utilitarian sense, if not the longevity or timeless sense. Out of the box awesome wake, quick ballast changes, roomy, etc..

Engine size???? Bahahahah. The Ford 6.2 has as much torque as the old BB chevy and provides it burning less gas and without killing passengers breathing fumes on the swim step. Who cares if it has smaller displacement??

Peak HP and torque at what RPM? Dyno sheet? Back up your assertions, because I don't know the HP and torque curves of the wee overhead cam engine as configured in this boat. I do know that a 460 based engine will fit anywhere a 4.6 will and take up less space. 454 based engines are fairly similar in size to a 385 series. I doubt the 6.2 torque curve compares well to a 385 series or BBC built for torque. Who are all these people dying on the swim step? Do they sit down and linger with the engine running? I'm not aware of any epidemic past or present.

You can have you narrow, low freeboard, wood stringer boat with fat sacks everywhere and while you are replacing stringers and rebuilding carbs, I will be out on the water.

My Saltare is not particularly narrow nor does the freeboard seem particularly low. Stringers and sacks are what they are. Replacing stringers is a once in a lifetime job though, and if I ever need to do mine it'll be done in composite so not only once in my lifetime but whoever else owns it next as well. Rebuilding carbs has never kept me off the water, my carbs (on all my vehicles) tend to just plain work, and a rebuild on any newly acquired vehicle is cheap, quick, and easy.

Like Wulphie I value my time on the water and would prefer not to work forever (though I do enjoy the look/feel/style of classic boats, and cars/bikes too). You can have your $100k+ boat, while you're stuck at work I'll be out on the water in my old tub enjoying early retirement.

[Tims]

Classic...... Attack my financial status/decisions.

Whatever, at least when the EMP hits your cars and boat will still work. (Assuming they have points) You got me there.

See torque specification below for the puny 6.2 ford. Easily beats out a standard marine 454 if you look at peak torque. Sure you can hop up an old BB chevy but then you can choose the 575 pound feet of tq supercharged ford. To add, the 6.2 engine is superior in almost every way to the ancient BB chevy. Cross bolted mains, oil cooled pistons, superior valve train, superior air flow, superior efficiency, won't leak oil everywhere. You can put 3000 hours on this engine with all your maintenance costs being a few sets of spark plugs and oil changes.





And here is cool video of what the 6.2 low end is capable of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDeaJe4Hb6Q

[MJHKnox]

I was at the SC factory today for a tour. They were building a lot of the new SA models. No secret there.
I'm assuming the dealers are looking for the 'new demo boat' to raise interest.

If you stay with no changes on models, you do not get interest in the wake boat community.
Ski Boats > then Wakeboard Boats > now the focus is Surf Boats
The 'buzz' is always about the new boat. New model. Thus, new sales. It's all about market share.

Maybe someday SC will use a retro-look. The older-look with new-technology-boat.

Donzi did it on their speed boats. That Sweet-16 model sold year-after-year.
Classic look, but it still got upgraded with motors/EFI and the new tech and drive systems.

Mark

[cadunkle]

Classic perhaps, but very relevant so far as value in the context of comparing boats. I don't know your financial situation, maybe you make deep six (or seven) figures and paid cash, meaning a new boat is a trivial purchase that doesn't affect your financial goals, or maybe you earn a closer to median income, borrow money for a new boat, and are content to postpone retirement... Or somewhere inbetween. I think the financial aspect is very relevant in the context of discussing the performance, merits, and value of a $100k+ boat. No attack meant, but my observation is most guys on inboard/watersports forums are well above median income but not rich. For most, a $100k boat is not the route to early retirement and more time on the water. A classic comment, in the sarcastic sense as I suspect you meant, would be your comments about phallic symbols, exhaust killing passengers, etc.I guess my old tub is a phallic symbol? Would my 45 year odl bike that is beautifully restored after much blood and sweat also be a phallic symbol? Or maybe it just kills passengers from the exhaust? Guess I should have just ran out and bought a brand new crotch rocket, silly me for enjoying vintage vehicles...

Those are alright torque numbers for a smaller engine, particularly overhead cam. The only impressive number is the supercharged number. Lots of area under the curve and torque coming on strong early like a larger engine. Forced induction means more expense and more components to fail. What do each of these engines cost from Indmar? How do they compare to prices for a comparable BBC or BBF? I'd wager for what that 6.2 costs you could have significantly more HP and torque from a more simple reliable engine. Also, generally the less HP per cubic inch the more longevity from an engine. I'm not a pro on the BBC, I've never built one but I have worked on plenty of them. The Ford 385 series is a superior platform: taller deck heigh, more crank to cam centerline clearance, better oil drainback, larger head bolts with blind holes, larger bore spacing, more block clearance at crank throws for strokers, etc... Heck you can make around 700 HP with factory crank and ported heads. Dollar for dollar I'd wager you can get a lot more HP from a 385 series, or even a BBC, than whatever the price tag is on that supercharged 6.2

Cross bolted mains are nice, but unnecessary in a robust 460 block in a low RPM marine application. 4 bolt main caps are cheap and won't cost a fortune for your machinist to install, if you're spinning it to the moon. Girdles are also available. I'd imagine similar applies to the BBC. Bottom end strength is not an issue on big blocks until you get to high RPM trying to squeeze massive power out of them. I'd wager the 6.2 has cross bolted mains from the need to turn higher RPM to get big block power out of a smaller engine, and forced induction, essentially virtual displacement, which raises cylinder pressures. Great, but not necessary when starting with a more robust larger displacement engine.

[Jetlink]

Now why did you have to go bring sense into this discussion dude?

[Wulphie]

In regards to the 6.2, I can say the one in my new F-350 runs great. This is the first gas powered truck I have owned. The previous f-350s I have owned were diesel but I will never go back to diesel. The cost of fuel and increased maintenance on the new diesels just isn't worth it with the performance of the new 6.2. Leaving the supply yard with a ton of sand and 10 bags of cement in the back the performance is very similar to my 02 7.3, climbs the hill at the same speed shifting between 2500 and 3000 rpm. I will say that some of that is the transmission of the new truck, it has more gears to choose from. I will also say that when you floor it and it does rev to 6,000 it sounds a little scary lol, not as smooth as the little v-8 in my benz haha.

[Tims]

Classic perhaps, but very relevant so far as value in the context of comparing boats. I don't know your financial situation, maybe you make deep six (or seven) figures and paid cash, meaning a new boat is a trivial purchase that doesn't affect your financial goals, or maybe you earn a closer to median income, borrow money for a new boat, and are content to postpone retirement... Or somewhere inbetween. I think the financial aspect is very relevant in the context of discussing the performance, merits, and value of a $100k+ boat. No attack meant, but my observation is most guys on inboard/watersports forums are well above median income but not rich. For most, a $100k boat is not the route to early retirement and more time on the water. A classic comment, in the sarcastic sense as I suspect you meant, would be your comments about phallic symbols, exhaust killing passengers, etc.I guess my old tub is a phallic symbol? Would my 45 year odl bike that is beautifully restored after much blood and sweat also be a phallic symbol? Or maybe it just kills passengers from the exhaust? Guess I should have just ran out and bought a brand new crotch rocket, silly me for enjoying vintage vehicles...

Those are alright torque numbers for a smaller engine, particularly overhead cam. The only impressive number is the supercharged number. Lots of area under the curve and torque coming on strong early like a larger engine. Forced induction means more expense and more components to fail. What do each of these engines cost from Indmar? How do they compare to prices for a comparable BBC or BBF? I'd wager for what that 6.2 costs you could have significantly more HP and torque from a more simple reliable engine. Also, generally the less HP per cubic inch the more longevity from an engine. I'm not a pro on the BBC, I've never built one but I have worked on plenty of them. The Ford 385 series is a superior platform: taller deck heigh, more crank to cam centerline clearance, better oil drainback, larger head bolts with blind holes, larger bore spacing, more block clearance at crank throws for strokers, etc... Heck you can make around 700 HP with factory crank and ported heads. Dollar for dollar I'd wager you can get a lot more HP from a 385 series, or even a BBC, than whatever the price tag is on that supercharged 6.2

Cross bolted mains are nice, but unnecessary in a robust 460 block in a low RPM marine application. 4 bolt main caps are cheap and won't cost a fortune for your machinist to install, if you're spinning it to the moon. Girdles are also available. I'd imagine similar applies to the BBC. Bottom end strength is not an issue on big blocks until you get to high RPM trying to squeeze massive power out of them. I'd wager the 6.2 has cross bolted mains from the need to turn higher RPM to get big block power out of a smaller engine, and forced induction, essentially virtual displacement, which raises cylinder pressures. Great, but not necessary when starting with a more robust larger displacement engine.

Goodness.

My comments about phallic symbols and such were meant in jest, but do speak to the crowd that comes on here and bashes every new boat because they are shaped differently and cost more than some 30 year old boat that they purchased. I would at least ride in one before I formulated a negative opinion. The new boat bashing on here is one of the reasons why the forum is pretty much dead and most of the Supra guys with newer boats are on the Moomba forum where they don't have to be scolded for their decision. But hey, that is why we have choices in life.

Yes the new boats are expensive now, but there plenty of ways to own one without being rich and postponing your retirement. I have owned 3 late model boats in the last 5 years and made money on 2 of them. All while enjoying lots of time on the water at an age where I can still ride behind them.

Your comments about making power with old BB chevy's and ford's are true but I don't understand how they are relevant in new boats. Besides, the LARGE majority of upper middle class folks don't have time to mess around buying old boats and trying to get them to perform like a modern one. I believe that my original point is still valid. The new 6.2 ford outperforms an old STOCK marine 460 / 454 BB in almost every way. Furthermore, the old engines are not even made anymore as they would never meet CARB standards that the boat builders have to satisfy if they want to sell their product in one of the biggest markets in the country.

The market will continue to drive the direction and price of the new boats. Lucky for the v-drive builders, they have been stealing market share from the I/O crowd and doing just fine. If there was a market for old style, direct drive boats someone would be building them.

[lmnelson86]

The new SA is awesome! I wish it was more affordable and I made a bunch more money. I would love to have one. Unfortunately its not in the cards for me at this point...but I love it!

[MJHKnox]

Goodness.

Yes the new boats are expensive now, but there plenty of ways to own one without being rich and postponing your retirement. I have owned 3 late model boats in the last 5 years and made money on 2 of them. All while enjoying lots of time on the water at an age where I can still ride behind them.

What make/year boats are you selling and making $$$ on?
3 boats in 5 years - are you purchasing newer models each time?
Are you upgrading any equipment in those or get getting them at the right price?

Just wondering . . .

Mark